So just WHAT AM I trying to do (pre-flop raise)?

[McStackin]

Let's say I hold AK or AQ on the button - I raise it up.

Why?

I know I want to get value from my good cards against limpers with inferior cards. I know that much.

Also we try to thin the field a bit - though not always easy at the micro stakes.

We gain initiative. I understand that too.

So how much?

At micro stakes, I can raise a ton and still likely get a caller or two. but if I raise it a lot and get 2 or 3 callers I now have to play a big pot with a weak to moderate hand vs. multi ATCers

Or, I can raise 3BB, see what develops, and play a smaller pot.

If I'm oop, or there are numerous limpers and typical cold callers, I always hear how I want to "make them pay", by calling too much with crappy cards - but now I'm faced with small hand and big pot out of position.


So my questions are:

1) What is the most positive EV raise amount for this hand type in general, and what adjustments should be made for opponent types? I'm not just talking about how much they will call - I also mean simply the best EV - since some players seem to have a call any button. Is 5BB technically more profitable if called by a lesser hand than 3BB?

2) Why do I make them pay to see cards when I'm out of position when it puts me in a big pot with a fair hand? (I've been doing this on blind faith in Tricker'sVids).

[ThatDeviant]

Solid guideline (if pot is unopened) is;

UTG, UTG+1, SB = 4x raise
MP, CO = pot sized raise
BTN = 3x raise

..and if you have a limper.

5x raise - (ex. someone limps for 0.25 - pop it to 1.25)

[TheDeKay]

Originally Posted by McStackin

2) Why do I make them pay to see cards when I'm out of position when it puts me in a big pot with a fair hand? (I've been doing this on blind faith in Tricker'sVids).

You mean, that if you raise UTG with AK and get called?
Well, especially at the micros that should be not a huge problem, cause most people are pretty easy to read. So you will fold out a lot of their unconnected pp and if they called you with a worse A, you will win a pretty huge pot. And if the board structure is veeery ugly, you could still c/f.
+ If you just limp UTG... you will likely have a multiway pot and AK does play pretty bad in those spots. If your UTG-raise is still called by the whole table, you could raise more.

[dansiek]

If the answer was simple Poker would be simple.
Unfortunately its not and that is why there are forums to discuss the hands that develop.
But it is best to have some rules put in place such as Deviants post.

I understand that AK can be hard to play against multiple callers etc, but that is jsut one hand in one position. The most money is made from hands that are well disguised and flop well, eg 78s etc.

[McStackin]

Thanks for the replies.

I have been raising the ABC way that ThatDevient describes. What I am trying to learn is why - so I can adjust depending on my cards, my position and my opponents.

If it is a TPTK type hand against players willing to call 10X BB (with a range below AK for example) is it +EV to raise that much? I read about players who like to rasie small against loose callers and see what develops - and outplay their weak opponents on the flop - but while that seems like it would reduce varience, I'm looking for max EV.

In theory, if a weak opponent will call with Any pair, any boradway against my AK, poker stove tells me I'm almost 60%. If that's the case is it not the highest EV to bet as much as will get called pre-flop right up to all in? Especially if the villain limped to begin with and is weaker than above?

If that's the case and I am in a micro game where I get lots of calls - wouldit be moe profitable to "adjust" to my players and add a BB or two to the standard ABC raises?

2:

TDKay that's exactly what I mean. I'm comfortable with playing TPTK postflop vs easy players. I can normally tell when I'm beat. So the idea here is to thin the field by raising more - but I have been finding very loose games where 3 or 4 players will call down a 5xBB raise. What should be my adjustment here? Raise more?


Thanks all.

[ThatDeviant]

You want to raise the same amounts for different cards, just altered by position and player type. This is the very basic premise behind 'balancing your range' - you don't give away any infomation on the strength of your hand based on bet size alone. If you start raising 10x with premiums and 3x with marginals, even the fish at the table are going to realise it pretty quickly.

Having said that, if someone is not folding anything, bumping it up massive preflop will always be +ev.

[pitmclord]

Originally Posted by dansiek

If the answer was simple Poker would be simple.
Unfortunately its not and that is why there are forums to discuss the hands that develop.
But it is best to have some rules put in place such as Deviants post.

I understand that AK can be hard to play against multiple callers etc, but that is jsut one hand in one position. The most money is made from hands that are well disguised and flop well, eg 78s etc.

It depends on your opponent. 78s could probably get more from a good tight player than AK but against bad loose players AK will get you alot of money. If I had AK UTG, I would want to bet as much as I think people will call. Sure, if there are a lot of callers I will probably check fold the flop but there's going to be a good chance I can value town people with weaker kickers when I hit my ace or king.