Outed by Pokey!

[couriermike]

So Pokey over at stoxpoker is doing a video series on stats and I sent mine in and he used them in his latest video 'StatMan 2'. Unfortunately when he loaded my database it displays my FT sn instead of saying 'couriermike (alias)' like at home but he still called me couriermike. Now all my fellow FT 10nl'ers will be like 'I know that retard! WTF is his problem?' Haha!

Pokey's final analysis of my play? Too timid! I think alot of that has to do with me trying to follow the ABC strategy from Trikkur's videos. Pokey definitely thot I was too tight. For right now tho I'm sticking with Trikkur's advice because that's worked better for me than anything else.

[GreenJoker]

Sick brag op

[TheDeKay]

I think, tight is fine at 10NL. But as you move up, you should open up a bit. Don't know your stats, but as long as you use a good preflop strat it's fine and you should do pretty well, if you don't spew a lot postflop

[GreenJoker]

Originally Posted by TheDeKay

I think, tight is fine at 10NL. But as you move up, you should open up a bit.

Hey DeKay you seem a solid player at what stakes do you think abc poker starts to become exploiteble im playin 10nl with some 25nl and i dont notice any differance is 50nl the same please say yes

BTW Mike what stats you running i want to know what stats pokey considers tight im playing a 18/15/3 style myself dont think i need to play any looser not at 10nl anyways.

[couriermike]

I was like 16/13/4. I think Pokey would consider a vpip less than 20 to be too tight and 'leaving alot of value on the table.' He thought (apologies to Pokey if I'm getting this wrong) that a decent player should defend the blinds about 15% of the time (mine was 10%) and should steal from the button 35%+. Obviously this is not like in Trikkur's videos but I think Pokey assumes a little more postflop skill than alot of microstakers have (myself included).

[chinz]

I agree with that losing value by being too nitty...

I could probably play profitably by playing a little bit tighter (I know I'm overestimating my postflop skills - I have around 26 vpip at NL50), but still I think that going far below 20 is just losing tons of value...

Originally Posted by GreenJoker

Hey DeKay you seem a solid player at what stakes do you think abc poker starts to become exploiteble im playin 10nl with some 25nl and i dont notice any differance is 50nl the same please say yes

Actually I'd believe that lower the stakes are, the higher VPIP you can get away with... If we assume that someone who's VERY GOOD player was trying to maximize his winrate at different stakes, he could get away with like 35-45 VPIP at NL50, whereas something like 30-35 would probably be more profitable in NL200-NL400...

This is based mostly on 2+2 posts by some respected players (like mdm13 and leatherass).

[urbansprawler]

Ya HAG is the way to go at nanostakes. Watch the pokersavvy Haxton vid.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by chinz

I agree with that losing value by being too nitty...

I don't understand what value you and Pokey are referring to. At the 10NL that I have played, the players don't really adjust to a looser style player at the table. In other words, I don't see them calling you down more just because you are a slighly looser player, like a 21 VPIP instead of a 16 VPIP.

At 10NL 6 max, you are paying .15 per orbit, so that is about $0.025 per hand. By playing 21 VPIP instead of 16, you are going to play another 1/20 hands so you are saving about .8 cents per orbit by playing more hands.

Then there is blind stealing, which you profit from slighly. When you are called, though, you would typically lose some of that. I don't really have great numbers in my head to do math on this.

Let me just end this as a question. Where is the value when the players don't really adjust to a looser style player at the table by calling down more?

[chinz]

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

Let me just end this as a question. Where is the value when the players don't really adjust to a looser style player at the table by calling down more?

Because people play bad postflop, you can make money with marginal hands with postflop play. For example, someone might openfold hand like T8s from the CO, not realizing that playing in from the position (well, btn might call sometimes) is +EV.

It doesn't really matter if players are calling too much or folding too much if their postflop play is lacking. If they're folding too much you make money by stealing blinds, if they call too much you make money by playing playable hand in position against them.

So, if they are not 3betting light and you think they play bad/exploitable post flop, you can play very wide ranges profitably.

PS.
People are calling down far too light in general at the micros.

[TheDeKay]

While it's true, that you basically lose value, if you play a bit nitty at 10NL (cause you are not involved in many hands with worse players...). But as long as you are still getting your feet wet, it's very easy to make many mistakes postflop, if you play to loose pre... so the loss will be greater than the gain.
It's actually pretty hard to exploit tight-play. If somebody plays like 16/13 in 6max and plays good, it's very, very hard to really exploit him. You can maybe his blinds a bit often and he won't steal your blinds as often, but that's not a huge edge you get. But if somebody plays like 30/24 and plays his buttom range not "perfect" you can gain a pretty huge edge over him.
I think, you can play pretty high with solid play... of course you have to adjust to some things at the higher limits, but you play solid ABC-poker most of the time at 200NL, too