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Old 10-05-2008, 05:28 AM
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Default Value bet or c/c?

Villain is very passive. Kind of tight post flop, but slightly loose(ish) preflop. Overall he's playing 49/24/0.58. On the turn I wasn't sure exactly what bet size would get the most value. $5.50 seems a bit small looking back, but I think it's not horrible (I'd prefer $6 at this point).

Anyway, river is what I'm asking about... The guy isn't a huge station (only 27% WTSD which is pretty low compared to other loose/passives), and he's won 90%+ of the showdowns (all but 1). That said, his range definitely includes any worse pocket pair and probably even 4x, along with flush draws/straight draws/better hands.

b/f or c/c?
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:22 AM
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you showed huge weakness on the turn with your bet size which is going to open you up to alot of bluffs on the river, that said id take a c/c line
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:22 PM
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c/c seems beatable. I think block bet/ which sounds weird but I see a lot of mid pairs here. I don't think he floats. B/f the amount you are willing to check call. Same Idea but gives you FE.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellawrw View Post
B/f the amount you are willing to check call. Same Idea but gives you FE.
I have zero FE here ever. Any better hand is snap calling a shove.

I did end up checking this, and he checked behind with something like A4o. I'm not saying I don't like betting out, I think it would've probably got a bit more value against his specific hand, and if he's not value betting 4x I kind of doubt he'd bet worse pocket pairs.... so I guess I kind of agree that b/f would be better than c/c, just don't think I've ever got any FE.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no eff eks View Post
I have zero FE here ever. Any better hand is snap calling a shove.

I did end up checking this, and he checked behind with something like A4o. I'm not saying I don't like betting out, I think it would've probably got a bit more value against his specific hand, and if he's not value betting 4x I kind of doubt he'd bet worse pocket pairs.... so I guess I kind of agree that b/f would be better than c/c, just don't think I've ever got any FE.
I definitely don't advocate a shove but I can't remember stack sizes when I posted that.
By FE it may 1% chance he folds, but the same result happens except you do not show the jacks.

If he has you beat I fully think he raises unless he floated AQ/ KQ here and spiked a river on you.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:10 AM
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FE comes from folding out better hands. If all better hands raise me (which isn't necessarily true), then I have no FE and I'm simply betting for value. Folding out worse hands just so I don't have to show down the jacks is kind of silly. If he's calling, it's usually with a worse hand (unless he played a weak 8x super passive or shows up with a random Qx for some odd reason) -- so I'm looking to get called and I really never want to see him do anything else (folding = I had the best hand, raising = I'm beat).
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