Playing HU short stacked

[casdav05]

Earlier I found myself heads up in the second round of a quadruple shootout on pokerstars. I am very limited in HU play and was wondering if anyone had any general strategy when playing HU when you only have about 1/3 the amount of chips that your opponent has. In nearly all of my previous situations, I was the larger stack. My opponent wasn't biting at anything that I threw at him unless he had a premium starting hand. Every bit that I gained he took back when he had a monster. I eventually switched to the shove or fold, but when he finally called he once again had me. I know my description leaves alot out, but any input would be appreciated.

[chinz]

How much did you have left (in blinds)? When the game goes push/fold, you should go approximately by this chart. But of course if you have >15bb, you should minraise (or 2.5bb) most of the hands rather than open shove.

It doesn't really matter whether you have 1/3 of his chips or twice his chips... your M ratio and/or stack in blinds is much more important.

[casdav05]

Originally Posted by chinz

How much did you have left (in blinds)? When the game goes push/fold, you should go approximately by this chart. But of course if you have >15bb, you should minraise (or 2.5bb) most of the hands rather than open shove.

It doesn't really matter whether you have 1/3 of his chips or twice his chips... your M ratio and/or stack in blinds is much more important.

I appreciate the info on the M factor. I had studied on it before, but let it slip my mind later in my game due to lack of play for a while. I'm printing the chart to go over on the push fold. Thinking back, I was probably premature in moving to that strategy. I wish I had found you guys in the beginning. Maybe I wouldn't have donked away so much $....lol

Thanks again.

[TheDeKay]

If you have a stack <10BB you should just play Pushbot ^^
http://members.cox.net/wastrel333/Pushbot%20Charts1.pdf

[chinz]

That doesn't really work in HU. You can't profitably push any2 when your M is 10 (15bb stacks), just because people WILL call you with hands like KQ or A5 (like they should). That chart claims that you should shove 72o for 15bb...

You should stick to Nash Equilibrium (the chart I posted)...

There is also easy methods for calculating shove/fold situations in heads up, for example SAGE. You can find it here. Anyway, it is also based on Nash Equilibrium calculations.

[TheDeKay]

Originally Posted by chinz

That chart claims that you should shove 72o for 15bb...

Yeah, against an tight opponent with a calling range of 66+ A6s+ A8o+ KQs...

Don't know why we should use an Equilibirum against weak players... I think, that it's not that wrong to shove any 2 HU for ~10BB... of course, if you think, that villain is calling with 40% of his range, you should adjust to that.

[chinz]

Originally Posted by TheDeKay

Yeah, against an tight opponent with a calling range of 66+ A6s+ A8o+ KQs...

Don't know why we should use an Equilibirum against weak players... I think, that it's not that wrong to shove any 2 HU for ~10BB... of course, if you think, that villain is calling with 40% of his range, you should adjust to that.

For 10bb you are shoving about 70% of the hands against someone who's playing too tight, but that chart says you should shove any hand with M=10, which means 15bb.

In HU you are less likely to have a big hand when you shove than in FR, so you will get called a lot lighter. That means you don't generally have as much folding equity -> shoving 72o with over 10bb is awful spew against anyone.

Have a closer look at those charts I posted... they suggest you should shove very light, most of the suited connectors are shove for 15-20bb etc. Obviously you cannot make a big mistake with eg. 15bb stack whatever you do, but still shoving any cards would be bad.

There is some cases where you could possibly shove any2 for 15bb, for example if villain keeps opening to 2.5bb from the button every hand (yes, I've seen that) and folding to shoves, then I could shove any2.

[TheDeKay]

Originally Posted by chinz

For 10bb you are shoving about 70% of the hands against someone who's playing too tight, but that chart says you should shove any hand with M=10, which means 15bb.

The chart says, that you should shove any hand HU /w M=10 against an an opponent, that is likely to call /w 66+ A6s+ A8o+ KQs.

Originally Posted by chinz

In HU you are less likely to have a big hand when you shove than in FR, so you will get called a lot lighter. That means you don't generally have as much folding equity -> shoving 72o with over 10bb is awful spew against anyone.

... 2cond statement is not true. It's - EV vs loose opponents, but vs tight ones, it's profitable:
Let villain call /w 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QJs,JTs,A2o+,KJo+,QJo (24,6% of his hands); we have 10BB
-0,246 * 3,9BB (=amount we lose, if we get called) + 0,754 * 1,5 = ~ + 0,2

You could use an equilibrium, if you really know nothing about your opponent or the opponent is strong, but if you are in a HU-situation in a tourny, you should have some kind of read. So you could give him a range and exploit that range... and from my experience: Ppl fold A LOT in those low limit HU-games

[chinz]

Why are you still talking about 10bb when that chart clearly says that you should shove any two with M=10 which is not the same than 10bb?

But yes, you are right, if we were certain (that would require multiple SNGs against same opponent) that he is calling with less than 25% of the hands, we should shove any hand from the button with 10 or less blinds.

But if we are 15+ blinds deep and he notices that we shove literally every button, he WILL notice that before it's too late for him. Instead, if we only shove 65% of the hands, it will be much harder for him (avarage bad player, too tight in shortstack HU) to call with hands like K7s, even though he should.

husng.com instructors are using that NE chart against ~unknown (0 or just a few matches against before) and from what i've read on 2+2 most of the husng grinders are. And I obviously have far more respect for midstakes turbo husng grinder's opinions than midstakes FR SNG grinder's, just because they are playing shortstack HU as their main game.

One thing you also want to keep in mind... if someone is only shoving 25% of his buttons and folding too much to your shoves, you don't want to make ~break-even shoves against him, just because he is playing so bad that you have higher EV when you focus more on those more +EV moves. If you are shoving 60% of buttons and he is shoving 25% buttons, you are so likely winning, that you don't want to make +-0 EV shoves.

Offtopic:
Please stop using that "2cond"... it is really tilting me.