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Old 12-18-2010, 04:16 AM
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Default 1000nl get 3 bet on river with bluff catcher.

Villain is a tricky reg 24/20/4. Never seen him in this spot on 3 betting rivers. Nothing too interesting to say but hes good and thinking.

My hand river is a set, but for the range hes repping, backdoor flush mostly, my hand is probably equivalent to like having AQ here since he isnt gonna be 3betting for value with 2pair.


BB: $1000.00
UTG: $1112.00
CO: $1030.00
Hero (BTN): $1204.75
SB: $1286.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BTN with 6 :spade: 6 :club:
2 folds, Hero raises to $30, 1 fold, BB calls $20

Flop: ($65.00) 3 :club: J :diamond: A :heart: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $41.00, BB calls $41

Turn: ($147.00) 8 :diamond: (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($147.00) 6 :diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $110.25, Hero raises to $365, BB raises to $929, Hero?
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:41 AM
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IMO it's really hard for him to have pure rebluff... Most likely hands seem to be nut flushes and KQs-flush, and it will be interesting for me to see smth else in that spot and know it was a good 3bet at the same time.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:56 AM
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Readless we probably have to fold. But you have to keep a close eye on him not only in these spots but also how he plays his draws on the flop. The reason why it would be a very good play for him to 3bet this as a bluff, like JT for instance, is that in his eyes you can't have a flush because you didn't 2barrel. so 66 is literally the top of your range if that assumption is true, and you cannot call his river 3b even with that.
Now, if he constantly C/raises his draws on the flop, we can turn this all against him because now HE cannot represent a flush .
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:05 PM
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The only backdoor flush hands should be Axs. If he defs all Axs and 3bets AK and AQ (and AA, JJ) pre, AT, A9, A7, A5, A4, (A3), A2 should be the only hands, that beat us. So let's say 7 combinations that beat us.
We get odds of 1441 to 564 or 2.55 to 1. So we need to win about 30% of the time. There need to be about 2 combinations in his range, that we beat.

I just think, that from villains perspective, our line doesn't make too much sense. We should double barrel our flushdraws and most strong hands... it makes no real sense, to raise with a hand like AT here for us, so he should see our range rly polarized.
How do you usually play against a line like c/c; c; bet? Is it the first time you raise there, or do you have a bluffing range there and villain saw you doing that once in a while? How large is villains range betting that river? Does he oop floating; does he vbet light here? (If he has a larger range, he has to 3bet bluff only a smaller part of that range; he could turn both - the floating and the light vbet - into a 3bet bluff).
So even if you haven't seen him 3betting a river, maybe we can find out a bit more about his usual river play. Without any further reads... there's no right or wrong answer.

Readless I'd call that, cause his stats look aggro and we think he's tricky.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:07 AM
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I don't know if I could actually fold this hand. While I can't put villain on many hands that would take this line, I have to think we are ahead enough % of the time for the call. The fact that he check/calls then leads the river makes me think he doesn't have total air, but what flush draws does this actually make? Maybe a few Ax hands, but if you put him on those, then you have to guess he is going to also have quite a few 2 pairs with those Ax hands as well. AJ is the most likely, but if you think he backdoored a flush, I could see him showing up with A3 or A8 off suit played like this. It is probably correct to not 3-bet shove on the river in those spots, but it is possible.

Since I think his range doesn't always have us beat (though I agree it is ahead in general) I think calling with the set here is correct. I wouldn't expect to win this pot even half the time, but we don't need that.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:26 AM
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If there was a showdown, I'm eager to know what the villain had
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trikkur View Post
I don't know if I could actually fold this hand.

Since I think his range doesn't always have us beat (though I agree it is ahead in general) I think calling with the set here is correct. I wouldn't expect to win this pot even half the time, but we don't need that.
I have to agree with Trikkur.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:47 AM
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If he 3bets with 2-pair or not depends heavily on how he views us. I can't imagine, that he would 3bet A8 or A3 readless here. Even AJ would be a weird raise, if we play tight and don't pay off much (and cause OP posted the hand and said 66=AQ here, I have the impression, Hero is quite solid/tightish ) or have a very polarized range here.

That villain has Axs in his range, doesn't mean, that he has Axo in his range. But it would be interesting to see his stats for defending the BB vs steal.

I think, it really depends on the dynamics. But since there is no information, it's a pure guess. If hero plays quite tight, doesn't pay off much, doesn't bluff-raise that river, he should fold. If hero plays diffrently or there is reason to believe, that villain thinks, that hero does play diffrently (like we had good hands several times in weird situations), it's a pretty clear call (since we know, that villain has aggroish/tricky tendencies).
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeKay View Post
If he 3bets with 2-pair or not depends heavily on how he views us. I can't imagine, that he would 3bet A8 or A3 readless here. Even AJ would be a weird raise, if we play tight and don't pay off much (and cause OP posted the hand and said 66=AQ here, I have the impression, Hero is quite solid/tightish ) or have a very polarized range here.
I do agree that 3-betting A3/A8/AJ are all a bit suspect here, but I still believe they make up part of his range. Playing his hand like this actually cuts out most of his range if not everything (played correctly).

Quote:
That villain has Axs in his range, doesn't mean, that he has Axo in his range. But it would be interesting to see his stats for defending the BB vs steal.
I agree that AXo are less likely than AXs. That's not the claim I was trying to make. There is only 1 flush out on this board, there are 3 other suited hands that would make 2 pair, but not flushes. So for every flush he hits with AdXd, he misses but makes a pair or better with AcXc, AhXh, AsXs.

In the end, villain's play is probably wrong at some point in time. His line doesn't make much sense and he could probably get value or play a bluff a lot better than this. With this amount of mixed information, I lean towards calling just because I do think it's possible that there are hands in his range we beat.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:19 AM
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for some reason I thought that there was a flush draw on the flop o.O . Only now looking a second time I see it was a backdoor. I'd lean towards a call given that now there are very few combos of flushes he could have and a lot of potential made hands turned into bluffs. I really don't expect him to do this with 2pair. Possibly with slowplayed 33/88 though.
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