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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2008, 03:15 PM
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Default Shoved flush/straight draw on the turn

What do you guys think of this play? I think i played it like a big pocket pair? But opponent didnt seem to get it unfortunate

he was running 26/21/1.2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

SB ($64.80)
Hero (BB) ($62.15)
UTG ($46.80)
Button ($54.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 6
1 fold, Button raises to $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4.75, Button calls $3.25

Flop: ($9.75) 5, 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, Button calls $6

Turn: ($21.75) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $15, Hero raises to $51.40 (All-In), Button calls $28.35 (All-In)

River: ($108.45) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $108.45 | Rake: $2
Main pot: $108.45 between Hero and Button, won by Button

Results in white below:
Button had K, 9 (three of a kind, nines).
Hero had A, 6 (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Button won $106.45


Edit: Want to add this hand for extra critic

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

SB ($57.45)
BB ($50)
UTG ($47.75)
MP ($101.05)
CO ($49.45)
Hero (Button) ($50.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 10
2 folds, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $7, SB calls $6.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($16.50) 8, 5, 4 (2 players)
SB bets $5.50, Hero raises to $18, SB calls $12.50

Turn: ($52.50) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $25.50 (All-In), SB calls $25.50

River: ($103.50) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $103.50 | Rake: $3

Results in white below:
Hero had A, 10 (flush, Ace high).
SB had A, 8 (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero won $100.50

Last edited by RnoTheKing; 10-08-2008 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:18 PM
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ummmm wheres the hand???

ooops now I see it
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:27 PM
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Villain obviously never folds to 3bets. If you didn't know that beforehand, I guess you didn't pick the worst hand to 3bet. I'd make it bigger to get you some more fold equity though. The flop is fine. The turn is terrible. You would play AA like this against someone who is so passive postflop? I wouldn't suggest bluffing passive players, especially in spots where you have pretty good equity, but if you absolutely must do it, just double barrel. I just have no clue what hands you thought you could push him off on the turn.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:52 PM
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How many hands are those stats from? I have a very hard time believing that a 26/21 would be so passive post flop.

I would probably just lead the turn for ~$15 as opposed to a crai since we really wont have much FE since it was 3bet PF and bet on the flop. If there were no 3bet PF then a turn c/r would probably be a lot more effective.

Second hand isn't terrible, but you've got to think about what range he's donking out on the flop with and how likely he is to fold those hands. IMO he's going to usually show up with pocket pairs, a worse flush draw, or a bunch of 8x hands (though I'd expect to see hands like 87s more than A8). Really, he's not too likely to donk/fold any of those hands. So I actually would just call him in position and make my decision based on the turn card and how he reacts to it.

As played, I guess I would also shove the turn since it's one of the cards I would've made a play on had I just called.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:54 PM
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I wouldn't play you for a big pocket pair on this line. I'd expect something like what you actually have or a set. I really think you should bet this turn -- maybe a bit less than 1/2 pot. (This is a line you might take with a big pocket pair.) Sometimes this will take the pot down, and, if not, with somewhere between 9 and 12 outs, you'd like to give yourself a decent price to draw. If villain shoves over your 2-barrel, you can lay your hand down with reasonable confidence that you're not getting the odds you need to draw.

On the second hand, I think your flop raise is a sound aggressive move -- villain will often have a draw or a small pair that's testing the water -- but you're probably better off checking behind the turn. You need some fold equity to make your push a good play, and, once villain calls your flop raise, I don't think you have much.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:54 PM
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Duh.

Completely overlooked the fact that you picked up a straight draw on the turn. This changes things considerably -- you could (and in the actual hand, do) have up to 21 outs.

Ironically, it doesn't change my advice. I still like the smallish turn lead -- you'd like to set your price for drawing as low as possible. You can probably still fold if he pushes because if he's got a straight or a set or two pair you're in the neighborhood of 12 outs which is not enough. The only concern is that he might be bad enough to push TT or JJ and I guess I wouldn't worry about that.

I don't like checkraising the turn, because even with all your outs, you need some fold equity, and his turn bet is big enough that he's pretty much committed. Check calling the turn is better. It also leaves you the option of bluff-pushing the river if you miss -- I wouldn't, but it has a chance of working against a taggish opponent at this limit.
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