KK 4bet pot bvb Ace high flop

[richyl]

Villain is 58/15/3 24% 3bet over 75 hands
I figured the flop was a Wa/wb spot, so I planned on check calling there and reevaluating if villain bets. Honestly no idea what to do on the turn there, I think I would have bet out if the turn was a brick.


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HAND #1
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Party Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

CO: $17.75 (177.5 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (SB): $10.20 (102 bb)
BB: $19.10 (191 bb)
MP: $20.60 (206 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with K K
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BB raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $2, BB calls $1.30

Flop: ($4) J A 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($4) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.10, Hero ?

[dansiek]

hmm, i think i would take a pot control line here.
just c/c both streets.

[given1982]

I 4bet a lot bigger preflop. I just call this and call another tiny one on the river or fold to a reasonable bet.

[D3rvish]

Originally Posted by given1982

I 4bet a lot bigger preflop. I just call this and call another tiny one on the river or fold to a reasonable bet.

I agree with 4 betting bigger preflop. The main reason to 4bet small like that is to make room for bluffs, but 4bet bluffing is just a spew at the micros. $2.50 - $2.75 is better.

Definetly just call the turn. If you don't improve on the river, call anything $2.50 or less.

[mahhddgtp]

This is a big problem with microstakes players... They get too concerned with multipliers and 3 or 4betting. Like.... His 3bet is so weak... You can't 4bet your great hand pre based off his min 3bet. I say you act as if his 3bet was a standard 3bet... Which is 3x or a minimum of 10BB up to 14BB.

I was talking with a fellow member, and he wanted me to pop my hand up to $.80 in a 10NL game after a guy had bumped $.20 pre-flop. Screw it... I raised him a minimum of 10BB to $1.20. He folded, but I'm going to make him pay for that trash of a raise.

I say you pop that 4bet to $3.50-$4.25. If you don't get action, that's fine... I'm fine with taking it down, rather than getting sucked out by a newbie looking to get cute with some crappy Ace OR getting in a marginal situation like this.

That said, I would just check-call his line and fold to a huge bet on the river. If it's freaking $.10 again, I'd call my way out of the hand... It's just terrible texture for KK.

[postoakpoker]

Originally Posted by mahhddgtp

I say you pop that 4bet to $3.50-$4.25. If you don't get action, that's fine... I'm fine with taking it down, rather than getting sucked out by a newbie looking to get cute with some crappy Ace OR getting in a marginal situation like this.

There's a fine line between making them pay to see a flop with ace rag or whatever junk they have and blowing them out of the water. I think 3.50-4.25 will mostly accomplish the latter. I'd make it $2.75-$3.00ish.

[mahhddgtp]

Originally Posted by postoakpoker

There's a fine line between making them pay to see a flop with ace rag or whatever junk they have and blowing them out of the water. I think 3.50-4.25 will mostly accomplish the latter. I'd make it $2.75-$3.00ish.

He's obviously got something worth min 3betting. I'd say it's just getting your money in good either way... Betting $2.75-$3 is good enough here, especially if you have position. I just look to punish players with my standard 4bet if they do a cute min bet...

I do actually get callers with how I've raised BTW. Most are set mining and are paying the price though.

[postoakpoker]

Well make a note on those players; anybody who's calling a raise for 20% of the effective stack sizes purely to set mine is literally giving their money away. the only thing they'll find doing that is fool's gold.

[no eff eks]

I'd call his turn min-bet and call on the river unimproved only if he bets tiny again. It's pretty close to a fold though even if he min-bets the river.

I think your 4bet size is fine fwiw.... getting 20% of effective stacks in PF is just fine with me.

[richyl]

Originally Posted by no eff eks

I'd call his turn min-bet and call on the river unimproved only if he bets tiny again. It's pretty close to a fold though even if he min-bets the river.

I think your 4bet size is fine fwiw.... getting 20% of effective stacks in PF is just fine with me.

Spr is pretty much what i was looking at when i made my 4bet size. His 3bet is 25% and they all have been relatively small 3bets. So i figured an spr of 2.5 should be good if I flop an over pair I can get it in on 2 streets, betting 2.50 on the flop and shoving the turn for around 2/3 pot, and allowing him to call preflop with a wider range. I ended up calling the turn bet, and check calling a river bet for $1.80