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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2009, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nawhead View Post
And this video, while it may stroke your own ego, is going to hurt newer players and cause pointless frustration rather than help them.
I don't think this video is targeted to new players. I would say it would be better served for more experienced players that have cashed out recently and are looking to maximize thier edge at lower limits in order to move up more quickly. If you have only played a tight abc game up until this point, I think it's much better to GRADUALLY increase your range, instead of just moving right away to full blown lag. That said, I definately think there is value in taking yourself out of your comfort zone if your bankroll can handle the learning curve, in order to gain more experience in some marginal spots, which probably won't go well initially.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2009, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by richyl View Post
I think it's much better to GRADUALLY increase your range, instead of just moving right away to full blown lag.
I think this is exactly the purpose of NOFX's video, to give beginners an insight into the ways in which a LAG player exploits their opponents, and hopefully give them a couple of ideas that they themselves can then incorporate into their game and experiment with.

To suggest that this was just to stroke ego's is quite ridiculous considering there were a number of posters who said it would be interesting to watch a micro LAG video in another thread.

Just my 2 cents...........
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2009, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Richy47 View Post
I think this is exactly the purpose of NOFX's video, to give beginners an insight into the ways in which a LAG player exploits their opponents, and hopefully give them a couple of ideas that they themselves can then incorporate into their game and experiment with.
I agree with you. Just wanted to add a caveat in there that if your regular game is 18/16 and you go straight to 34/30 or whatever, to make sure your willing to lose some money, so you might wanna drop down in limits to practice, or gradually increase your range starting with the button and cutoff. If you start to show more profit from those positions after your adjustments then your probably begginning to play well enough to add in some more hands, although you dont want to overdo it.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:38 AM
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NOFX your set up took ages to get use to but once i did it was a pretty interesting video.

As the others are saying this is more aimed at those who can play TAG quite well but are looking to add something else to their game.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2009, 01:16 PM
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I enjoyed the video as usual.

I agree with NOFX that it makes more sense to open up your ranges and learn how to play non-premium hands and marginal situations at micro stakes instead of waiting until the stakes are higher and the opposition is tougher. Obviously you should be able to beat the micros playing 16/14 or whatever before you try this, but I don't think NOFX is suggesting otherwise.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:01 PM
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do I need to download some codec for this? I get audio but no video.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nawhead View Post
OK, so you proved that it's possible to profit playing LAG at 10NL. You proved you're a better player than most random 10NL donks. I'll even disregard sample size variance and just give you the benefit of the doubt since you play higher stakes. But how does this help a beginner?
Honestly showing 30 minutes of one session where I run hot doesn't prove anything. I could just as easily have lost several buy-ins in 30 minutes, but that wouldn't prove that it's not possible to beat $10nl playing LAG.

This helps new players by showing how a winning player uses a LAG game to exploit loose/passive players. These kinds of players really don't change as you move up -- they just become less common. The calling stations are often the guys that put TAGs in the most uncomfortable spots, so I think it's helpful to explain what I think is the best way to take their money.

Quote:
You started this whole line of thinking by advising a guy who's breakeven at 10NL playing a 18/14 game to loosen up. Let's just assume for argument sake (please don't take personal offense OP, just hypothetically speaking here) that there's no variance and that OP is just a bad, spewy player. That he actually doesn't know how to play profitable poker, TAG or otherwise.
I said he should loosen up a little, that doesn't mean I wanted to see him playing 30/26 the very next session. By "loosen up" I meant to go from playing a fairly nitty game to playing more like 21/18.

Quote:
Your advice was to loosen up. That he should learn LAG to profit. That he should learn LAG to get better.

But this doesn't make sense.

LAG requires a lot of feel and quick adjustments. One has to rely on a lot of instincts and gut feelings from tens of thousands of hands he has played in the past. Instincts acquired from situations when he were playing TAG.

Beginners don't have these instincts to fall back on.
Well I agree with you to a point... but somebody that's playing 18/14 is almost surely experienced enough to loosen up and start playing better poker.

Quote:
And this video, while it may stroke your own ego, is going to hurt newer players and cause pointless frustration rather than help them.
This is not an issue of pride for me. Lots of people can beat $10nl...

The point of the video was to show a little bit different way to beat the lowest stakes. The standard advice even for experienced players is "play tight" "don't bluff" "play your good hands aggressive and fold bad hands".... I don't really think that's the best way to beat these or any other games so I showed what I think is a better strategy.

That's all it is... a strategy. It doesn't make you cool to play looser than a TAG. If you can't beat a game playing LAG but can beat it playing TAG that doesn't mean that you're not a good player.
======

Thank you to everyone that watched the video. Sorry about the overlap but my computer sucks too much to record on my second monitor. Personally I really like the table mod that I use, but I guess it is a little clunky looking.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2009, 03:03 AM
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I hold the minority opinion obviously. But I guess all the replies to my objections to the value of this video are reasonable. And now I look like an ass cause I didn't actually watch the video since no eff eks put a warning in there also. I plead TLDW...

Still, I simply wanted to state in the thread itself that someone who doesn't have a winning game already shouldn't get influenced by this video. As resident weak-tight nit, I felt it was my job to do this.

Now back to folding bottom set ftw!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2009, 04:23 AM
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I think you used a bit too offensive tone, nawhead (what's with the ego strokes??). noFX made a video, to help out learning PokerTrikz residents. That is obivously a great thing, no matter how you look at it.

Damn, I have been struck by poker lazy =( This vid is the next thing on my to-do list, I promise.
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