overpair on drawy board

[djoe77]

Is it right to shove the flop here? assuming he has both flush and straigth draw

[Richy47]

Need to post the hand really ....... can't do much with this information.

[djoe77]

oh, i guess you need that also

weaktight | Hand | AA - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem

[Total Sweetheart]

I don't know what the mathematically correct answer is, but would get it in on the flop.

Curious to hear what everybody thinks.

[richyl]

Looks good. If you get 10% or more of the effective stacks in preflop with a big pair, you should not make a habit of folding overpairs postflop.

[djoe77]

about same thing happened today again:

http://weaktight.com/673738

I figured on the flop I am beating any pair(except overs, but he didnt 3bet or bet preflop), so I raised him, and, since he didnt shove, I put him on a top pair and/or draw and I think Im ahead after on the flop.

After thinking more, I think I should have 3bet the turn aswell rite?

[no eff eks]

I would definitely increase your 3bet size. By just 3betting to pot you're missing value because people are going to call you a very large part of the time.

On the flop I don't really see the need for such a massive cbet. Sure he might have a spade draw, but it's important to keep in mind that 1) he's usually well behind you anyway and 2) if he bricks on the turn you'll almost always win the pot.

As played it's obviously a call of the shove.

[Rex Hornby]

Pre-Flop you are over a 92% favourite.

After the Flop you are down to just under 63% favourite, slightly worse than a 2/1. He is just over 37% favourite to win the hand.

I think you played the hand very aggressive, which is not a bad thing, but you have put in 80 cent on the flop, betting more than the pot of 76 Cent. To me at this level that is telegraphing "DON'T CALL ME AS I DON'T WANT TO SEE A SPADE", he has only $1.27 left and at $2NL you are getting called by a high percentage of players who have the ACE OF SPADES. You will get called by a lot of players with the QUEEN OF SPADES, JACK OF SPADES and even worse spade cards. All Players Holding TWO SPADE cards are doing the exact same with an All-In move against you as they would be scared you could hold the ACE OF SPADES. Also I would put anybody with a SET goes All-In leaving the only other players to call could be anyone holding a KING irrespective of the kicker card. In your situation, this is actually the only player you want to call, of course, as long as his other card is not a SPADE.

This is a horrible flop for your aces and I believe you have correctly bet the flop, but I would have probably bet more like 40 Cent (About 50% of the pot). There would have been a good change he would have flat called your 40 Cent bet. The TEN OF SPADE then comes on the TURN and you would be forced to check (with you not holding a high spade and the board now having four spades it would be very difficult to bet the Turn). He would then go ALL-IN for his remaining 87 Cent & you would have an easy fold in my opinion. Saving you 87 Cent which is a decent percentage to your stack size. Some times mate, it takes a great poker player to lay down a great hand.

If the above situation had happened were you bet 40 Cent and he flat called and a FOUR OF HEARTS came on the Turn. You would then be an 80% favourite to win the hand. I like your 80% and 4/1 favourite much better now as you could shove All-IN and give him a much more difficult decision. Calling for a Flush is a lot easier with two cards to come then only one card. Sorry but it happens at $2NL. It even happens at higher levels as many players will tell you.

REMEMBER JUST BECAUSE ACES ARE THE BEST HAND BEFORE THE FLOP THEY COULD BE THE WORST HAND AFTER THE FLOP.

I remember from my experience of these levels that most players love to see flops, they struggle to put down any two suited cards before the flop. Any ace is played and so on.

Hope this helps a little, the more you play, the more you will understand what I mean.

[djoe77]

thanks, that was deffinately helpful, more like the concept Trikkur explained in "The Well" thread, of c/c-ing the reaver since youre only gonna get called by better hands.
Sam here I guess, but the reason I bet 80c was to not give him odds if he had 1 spade....
At this limits, trust me, most of them call and some even 3bet me with J5 or any horrible kicker...

anyway good post, thx