KK pf 50nl

[pitmclord]

I just sat down at a table where you can buy in 200bb. Things were going fine and no one was really 3betting at all when I got KK UTG. I immediately get 3bet by UTG+1 who is also deep stacked. I instantly think he has a big hand because of how fast he did it and there was no 3betting before this for the 10 minutes I had been there. I didn't want to just flat this oop so I 4bet. He thinks for a second then shoves over me. I know he probably has AA but I call anyways.

My question is how deep do you have to be to fold KK pf to an unknown?

[mojo6911]

I don't think I would ever fold to him. He could be doing the same with JJ, QQ, KK(unlikely), AA, AK. Against this small range, you are still a slight favorite.

How much money was in the pot before the shove? I guess that is the million dollar question.

[ShadesAA]

Never be afraid to get KK in preflop

[no eff eks]

Against a complete unknown (first hand I've played with him or seen him play), I'd have to be about 300bb deep to fold KK preflop... with a little knowledge of how they play (even 10 hands) you can safely make a large number of assumptions about their range and you can adjust that number up/down.

I have never folded KK preflop, and I've got it in for 200bb many times -- usually with the best hand. Then again, I've played mostly on sites with 200bb buy-in games.

[dansiek]

u gta be pretty damn sure hes got AA to fold imo.

[chinz]

I've folded KK pre just once so far, and it was against a 13/2 (yes, 2% PFR) regular NIT with 200bb stacks... and I'm still not too sure if I made a right move...

[dansiek]

against a 13/2 u probably did lol

[no eff eks]

Originally Posted by chinz

I've folded KK pre just once so far, and it was against a 13/2 (yes, 2% PFR) regular NIT with 200bb stacks... and I'm still not too sure if I made a right move...

Sounds like one of those rare times that I'd also fold... or at least I'd be telling myself that after I got owned by his AA.

[tmiby]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

I don't think I would ever fold to him. He could be doing the same with JJ, QQ, KK(unlikely), AA, AK. Against this small range, you are still a slight favorite.

How much money was in the pot before the shove? I guess that is the million dollar question.

I think that't the point! if we focus on these specific hands we can make the calc.

winning percent:

JJ = 82%
qq = 82%
kk = 50%
AA = 18%
aks = 66%
ako = 70%

gives you an average of 61.3%. I call.

If you know he is really tight and wouldn't do the 3bet with jj or ako, you're down on 54%. but he is the aggressor. there it depends how much money is already in. probably i fold...