Why would you c-raise with the nuts on the flop?

[TylerDurden]

No read on table - 17th hand. I had not PFR yet.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($101.50)
Hero (MP) ($48.45)
CO ($115.70)
Button ($199.70)
SB ($278.70)
Villian (BB) ($83.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9:diamond:, 8:club:
1 fold, Hero bets $3.50, 3 folds, Villian calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50) Q:heart:, J:club:, 10:club: (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $4.50, Villian raises to $14, Hero raises to $23.50, Villian raises to $78, Hero calls $21.45 (All-In)

Turn: ($97.40) 3:heart: (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($97.40) J:diamond: (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $97.40 | Rake: $3


Hats off to the Villain who cold called with Big Slick in the blinds. But if you flop the nuts, why would you check-raise? If Ithe Hero had anything less then 2P, I'm folding. Wouldnt he extract more value without the c-raise and just called? (It worked here for him, but only bc we both flopped straights).
Why would you be worried about more cards coming out when you have the nuts (I realize there are 2 clubs on the flop, but if your opponent has a piece of the flop why wouldnt you slow play?)
I can understand a c-raise with AcXc, KcXc, QcXc, KQ, QJ, QT, Q9 - some hand where your hand is decent with big draw just in case you were behind. The idea of the c-raise would be to take it down right then - isnt it? If you already had the nuts wouldnt you be limiting the amount you would make with the c-raise?
Hopefully I'm missing something and someone can explain it to me.

Thanks in advance.

[ThatDeviant]

Well obviously because he can stack someone with a worse hand ie. you.

Leading is horrible for him as he'll fold you out if you dont have anything. Check raising is good because he can build the pot with the nuts and project his hand from the club draws and other cards that kill kill his action.

Oh and buy in full.

[zayphod]

because you can get 2 pair and sets to pay you off (if your hand is weak then you will fold to any action on the turn anyway) Plus you didn't say what suit his AK was. If he didn't have a club then I would consider him to be protecting his hand as well.

[given1982]

Value and protection.

[mojo6911]

It doesn't protect if they check behind.

[zayphod]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

It doesn't protect if they check behind.

Thats true but if he has the nut flush draw then its all ok, and it is likely the original raiser will cbet

[TylerDurden]

Exactly - if they check behind, there's no protection and I think you get much more value check-calling which disguises your hand.

[ThatDeviant]

Flush draws are cbetting this all day. If they check behind then they're giving up almost always.

[Qgel]

First of all buy in full, this is not a shortstack strategy forum and fold 89o in MP unless you're playing some kind of a lag style that you think is profitable. Also, you should just be 3bet shoving the flop, why in the world did you min3bet? I smell a bad habit of minreraising with nut hands.

C/raising for value with straights/sets is optimal on this board texture. You don't ever want to slowplay the nuts when half of the deck can kill your action on the turn. For instance, if you decide to slowplay AK on this board, you C/Call the cbet and the 9c rolls off on the turn. Your opponent will now be afraid of straights/flushes and will not put any more money in the pot with, say, QJ (top 2 pair) whereas on the flop he was likely to go broke with the hand because he could easily put you on worse 2 pair or a draw.

[TylerDurden]

Thanks Qgel - I understand that many cards will kill your action - but why not bet-3bet on the flop - wouldnt that work as well, bc he could just see your bet as a cbet and come over the top with air.

to answer the other questions - I bought in for 1/2 bc I'm just moving up to this level and dipping my toes in. As for the min-raise, that was purposely done as I was certain I had the best hand and wanted to get all the money in on the flop by giving him good odds. Obviously my read was off bc I couldnt see him cold calling AK preflop.

thanks.