small flush on 4-flush river

[couriermike]

Not sure I played this at all right, and definitely not sure what to do on the river.

My opponent is pretty reasonable, 22/14/2. He could have a straight, two pair, big draw, or like pair+nfd.

When he calls the turn bet and the river brings the fourth club, I don't know where I stand at all. What's a good line for this hand? Shove the turn? Bet/fold the river? The pot's pretty big on the river with basically a psb left behind, do you get away if he raises a small blocking bet?

Mostly, though, how do you play this river situation?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($16.10)
SB ($7.20)
Hero (BB) ($19.90)
UTG ($9.85)
MP ($21)
CO ($20.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, 5
3 folds, Button bets $0.40, SB calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.20) K, 8, Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.20, Button calls $1.20, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.60) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3

River: ($9.60) 6 [color=#009B00]

[given1982]

Is minraising the button standard for villain? Shoving the turn is ridiculous and results-oriented--you really want to shove $14 into a $4 pot? And I don't know how accurate it is to call this a "small flush." It's the 3rd nuts. I like bet/fold on this river.

[lowkey]

pot is 9.60 on the river so a shove isn't exactly a massive overbet, but it's pretty doggone close. What do you expect to get called with that you beat here?

I like a 1/2-2/3 pot here and fold to a shove.

If button is smart and you check he'll make a pretty big raise and put you to a tough decision.

Only two cards in the deck beat you as you have the 10c blocking straight flushes, and his line doesn't scream Ac or Jc to me here. (if he had one of these i think he'd have reraised the turn to buy the pot)

[given1982]

Originally Posted by couriermike

Shove the turn?

Originally Posted by given1982

Shoving the turn is ridiculous and results-oriented--you really want to shove $14 into a $4 pot?

Originally Posted by lowkey

pot is 9.60 on the river so a shove isn't exactly a massive overbet, but it's pretty doggone close. What do you expect to get called with that you beat here?

[dansiek]

epic quoteaments

[lowkey]

Originally Posted by given1982

I wasn't talking about the turn. I was commenting on the river since you answered the turn play question quite well

[couriermike]

Originally Posted by given1982

Is minraising the button standard for villain?

Yes. It seems like alot of people are stealing from the button with a min-raise now. It's really annoying.

Originally Posted by given1982

Shoving the turn is ridiculous and results-oriented.

True.

Originally Posted by given1982

I like bet/fold on this river.

Originally Posted by lowkey

I like a 1/2-2/3 pot here and fold to a shove.

This is what I thought, too. So I bet 1/2 pot. But when he did shove, I couldn't fold, because I thought, "I'm getting 5:1. If he's over-valuing a set (or whatever) even 17% of the time, I have to call," which apparently just makes me a huge station .

So, say you bet the river and he shoves, are you pot-committed getting 5:1 with almost 3/4 of your stack in the pot, or is it an obvious fold? I would appreciate people's comments, especially the more experienced players.

I would appreciate everyone's comments.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by couriermike

Yes. It seems like alot of people are stealing from the button with a min-raise now. It's really annoying.



True.





This is what I thought, too. So I bet 1/2 pot. But when he did shove, I couldn't fold, because I thought, "I'm getting 5:1. If he's over-valuing a set (or whatever) even 17% of the time, I have to call," which apparently just makes me a huge station .

So, say you bet the river and he shoves, are you pot-committed getting 5:1 with almost 3/4 of your stack in the pot, or is it an obvious fold? I would appreciate people's comments, especially the more experienced players.

I would appreciate everyone's comments.

Without more information than you've given us, you can't assume he's bluffshoving over your third barrel. And if you think he's really bluffy, then just c/c the river (and mention your read in the OP).

[lowkey]

maybe i'm in the minority, but I never think to much about being pot comitted in a cash game, since i can always top off my stack, and that half a buyin I save is half a buyin i can use another time. I wouldn't blame anyone for calling though, given the odds and lack of reads.

Tournament, yeah you're calling pretty much every time

[no eff eks]

Originally Posted by lowkey

Tournament, yeah you're calling pretty much every time

Wat? That's horrible, especially in a tournament. In a tournament chip values are not constant which makes protecting your tournament life more important than always making a +EV play. So while you might be giving up a tiny bit of chip equity by making a fold, you're actually make a -$EV call since you'll bust out of the tourney too often.

As for the actual hand in question. The guy made two calls of massive bets on the flop/turn. What exactly are we going to get value from by betting? The only reason to bet is to block him from bluffing, and given the SPR here I don't even like that. I'd just c/c this unless he's nity... in that case I'd c/f.