AK 3-bet OOP

Ravelord · #1 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 06:42 AM

I 3-bet AKs from the SB. UTG and the button calls. Flop comes AQ9. Since I 3-betted I decided to lead out, UTG calls and button folds. Turn is a blank. What to do now... I put UTG on any high pair or AK/AQ, KQ.

I had two options:
- Bet the turn again and hoping for a fold. If he shoved over me then I was pot committed and I had to call. I hate going all in with TPTK but he could very well also have AK.
- Give up on the hand.

What would you do here?

josque is a donk
paradise is a 22/9/1.1

postoakpoker · #2 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 06:57 AM

At first I wanted to say "TPTK in a 3b pot, arrrrr you can eat baby", but then when I thought about his range when he flats your 3b & then your flop cbet, it's a pretty gross spot, assuming villain hasn't seemed fishy, bluffy, or overly-floaty. I guess you probably still have to bet the turn & call all in, but I wouldn't feel great about it.

no eff eks · #3 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 03:11 PM

If it makes you feel any better, your opponent's cold call of your 4bet was absolutely horrible. Your bet sizing was pretty good preflop.

This was a pretty good flop for you so you're obviously betting the flop for value... The problem is that I'm not really expecting either player to stack off with worse being that we're 200bb deep.

Since the pot is already quite large given the stakes I don't think you need to bet very big at all. I'd go with something like $8 instead of what you ended up betting.

If you get one call it's an easy b/f on the turn (unless the fishy player is going to shove worse Ax hands thinking it's for value). If they call on the turn I'd probably just c/f the river, although making a blocking bet is okay too (just never call a raise).

Being 200bb deep and OOP makes this super awkward, so maybe a bigger 4bet would be better preflop.

postoakpoker · #4 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 03:52 PM

Hmmmm well apparently I overlooked several factors in this hand, my bad it was pretty late

lowkey · #5 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 06:50 PM

I'd get really suspicious given the passiveness of the villian on the flop. AA or QQ in the hands of a calling station looks eerily similiar to this (lean towards qq since they like to aipf with aces or kings)

Just from the line 1 stats here (semi-loose passive), I'd give him credit for A9 with the 9 of diamonds at minimum, up to QQ max)

The turn all in would lead me to discount flush draws, and lean more towards a set, again this is just going on the 22/9/1.1. If you have some info about him overplaying weak aces, or semibluffing with 2nd best hands, it's a call/cry. Otherwise, I'd probably fold and feel bad about it in the morning.

200b · #6 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 09:26 PM

4-betting AKs oop is something I wouln't do, but that's just me. I think what we should aim for is to win a decent pot, but not stack off. AKs is good with deep stacks if it can make a big hand, like straight, flush or a full house. But TPTK is not that strong here. Call the 3-bet and then try not put in your whole stack would make you loose less in this place.

As played, checking the turn could slow down the play a bit, making it possible to not risk the stack.

no eff eks · #7 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200b

4-betting AKs oop is something I wouln't do, but that's just me. I think what we should aim for is to win a decent pot, but not stack off. AKs is good with deep stacks if it can make a big hand, like straight, flush or a full house. But TPTK is not that strong here. Call the 3-bet and then try not put in your whole stack would make you loose less in this place.

I'm sorry but this is horrible advice.

ThatDeviant · #8 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200b

4-betting AKs oop is something I wouln't do, but that's just me.

As opposed to what? Flatting OOP? Thats awful.

200b · #9 (**permalink**) 03-17-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatDeviant

As opposed to what? Flatting OOP? Thats awful.

Yes, that's what I would do. I'm not much into 3-betting at all. I have managed to beat NL25 without 4-betting much more than JJ+ and 3-betting AQ+, TT+ and some occational light 3-betting. So 3- and 4-betting is not really something I know much about. Actually I'd be quite satisfied with having my AKs in a 3-bet pot. What are your reasons for wanting to 4-bet? Thinking about it I can see that we can win the pot right away. We can represent something stronger. We can more easily guess out opponents hands, for example they
are not likey to have small pp's or small or mid suited connectors. But also, we're out of position, but maybe that is a less problem compared to the benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by no eff eks

I'm sorry but this is horrible advice.

Is it the calling pre or slowing down action at turn you don't agree with? I think it wouldn't be good to stack off with a TPTK. That's what's my advice is. Not to 4-bet is not an advice. It's only a statement of how I would have played.