Coolers, right?

[couriermike]

Villains are all loose-passive, like 30/15/2 or 30/10/1. These are all standard stack-off spots, right? I'm getting creamed and I just want other people's opinions as to whether these are coolers or not. Thanks. (Sorry if this should be in the beats forum.)

In the first hand, is the flop shove too much? I thought he could come along with fd or worse overpair (besides better hands of course).

In the second hand, do we ever fold that hand? We only beat worse aces, and the loose-passive might never bet so big on the turn with a one-pair hand.

In the third hand, do we ever slow up when the third diamond comes or when the river pairs the board? He could easily have Q8 here or similar garbage.

[kgu1]

Yes, they're all coolers. From personal experience, the set vs. TPTK hurts the most.

For Hand #1: your reshove all-in on the flop is really big and unecessary. A moderate reraise would do there.

[chinz]

Hand 1:
Why do you 3bet the flop against a passive player? You are turning your hand into a bluff pretty much. You should rather just call down when he raises the flop. You're behind his range for stacking off with 135bb stacks.

The fact that it's BvsB makes 3betting a little better, but even if you 3bet, it shouldn't be a shove.

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Hand 2:
There is even a little dead money in the pot and you have 100bb effective stacks against the original 3bettor, you should 4bet here.

Anyway, if you decide to flatcall, you should be stacking off pretty much to any flop with TPTK. Postflop is played right.

---

Hand 3:
Played fine.

Originally Posted by kgu1

For Hand #1: your reshove all-in on the flop is really big and unecessary. A moderate reraise would do there.

Without any reads, I think that 3betting T high flop with overpairs (135bb deep) is just suicide. I know there's a flushdraw and it's blind vs. blind, but still.

[jas540]

AA vs KK, TPTK vs. set, nuts losing to 4 outer at river are all clearly coolers (not getting into if you could have saved some money hand one).

[given1982]

1 - flop raise isn't that good.
2 - preflop is terrible.
3 - river bet isn't that good.

I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you chalk all these hands up to coolers and stop thinking about them.

[kgu1]

Originally Posted by chinz

Without any reads, I think that 3betting T high flop with overpairs (135bb deep) is just suicide. I know there's a flushdraw and it's blind vs. blind, but still.

I definitely see your point here and I agree now that a flat behind would have been the better play. However, I also think now that it's because your BvB that Hero should've been cautious. Villain's range is so wide on the BB that if he 4-bets here all-in, the only thing Hero can beat is Tx or a flush draw; he's losing to any random two pair, a set, AA (as seen), and even money with any combo draw (this range is w/o any opponent reads).

[chinz]

Originally Posted by given1982

3 - river bet isn't that good.

When he checks to us (and he seems to be bad player, judging from his limping), I'd still say that there's some value in river bet. It's right that he shouldn't really be calling with too many worse hands, but I wouldn't respect an unknown in NL10 enough not to bet my hand when he checks to me.

First of all, when he limps I don't really think he has a 2 broadway hand (yes, I was wrong) and when he just calls on a flop like that, I'd never assume that he'd have a hand as strong as two pair. Flushdraw is more likely, but I don't know if anyone would just check-call the turn and check to us(!) on the river with a flush. If he would be thinking player at all (and no, you shouldn't expect he is), he would knew that we'd check top pair or overpair behind here on the river, so he should lead.

Obviously all my assumption were wrong... but that's just being result oriented. =P

I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you chalk all these hands up to coolers and stop thinking about them.

+1.

It is true that these hands are kind of coolers, but if you would've played them more optimally, you could have saved some money (and won the 2nd one).

[nawhead]

Hand 1 cooler. He could just as well done the same and called the same with JJ/QQ/AT/Axs blind battle.

Hand 2 you should/can get away. You play is so fast like you put him on AJ or something and expect him to felt it to you. Those kind of little bets are either hands that aren't willing to felt or want you to raise them. When he does that and calls, and bets into you again on turn there should be alarm bells. Why would he be so damn aggressive with AJ or AQ? AT makes sense. A6s makes sense. set makes sense. AK no good. Loose-PASSIVE means when he bets, and keeps betting, we get out.

Hand 3 is thin on river. We might get called by a bare Q (but not that much I think). Possibly a flopped straight (K9, 89), but we would have heard from him earlier. Hard to check this down here tho. But the 3 flush and paired boards are 2 pretty good reasons to. I think the 1/4 river value induces more bare Q to call, anything more and we're reverse value betting a lot into slowplayed flushes.

[nawhead]

Originally Posted by chinz

It is true that these hands are kind of coolers, but if you would've played them more optimally, you could have saved some money (and won the 2nd one).

This is a level, eh?

[couriermike]

Originally Posted by given1982

1 - flop raise isn't that good.
2 - preflop is terrible.
3 - river bet isn't that good.

I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you chalk all these hands up to coolers and stop thinking about them.

I understand 1 and 3, but in the second hand, do you 4-bet shove AK? Is that better than calling to see if you hit? Could you explain a little more about the preflop in hand 2?