big hand on flop, barrel oop, board runs bad, river?

[couriermike]

I'm not sure about this kind of river situation..

You have a great hand on the flop, set, two pair, overpair, even TPTK like AK/Axxr, but you're oop versus a loose-passive player. Great situation, so you barrel flop and turn and he calls down. But the turn and river put a 4-straight or 4-flush on the board. Now you're oop on the river, facing a board where only better hands call a bet (in theory) and the pot is big, what do you do?

Would you ever check/fold or check/call? If you bet/fold and he raises, you'd be folding after putting alot of your stack in the pot. If you make a blocking bet, how do you size it? How would you deal with a min-raise where you're getting great odds but are almost always beat?

You get the idea. What's standard in this situation?

Here's an example. Villain is 31/12/1, loose-passive but not a total drooler.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

CO ($12.49)
Button ($21.48)
SB ($53.47)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($9.90)
MP ($10.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 5
3 folds, Button bets $0.35, SB calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.05) 5, 8, 10 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.70, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold

Turn: ($2.45) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.60, Button calls $1.60

River: ($5.65) Q (2 players)
Hero ?

[ShoveOrFold]

B/F. 3.50.

C/F a set sucks, and there is some value against some two pairs and such.

C/C sucks because you are easily getting valuetowened by a wide range of hands.

[Silverthunder]

I like a check call against a loose passive player.

With solid players, they would see that as an opportunity to bluff so a blocking bet is good. You can probably fire a 55% of pot bet.

I was playing a hand where I was on a draw and he barreled big twice. I am pretty sure he had something like TPTK. It was possibly a mistake to call him on the turn. However, on the river one of the draws hits (but not the draw that I was working on) & so he leads into me for 25% of pot. I pop it up to full amount of pot and take it down with air.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by ShoveOrFold

B/F. 3.50.

C/F a set sucks, and there is some value against some two pairs and such.

C/C sucks because you are easily getting valuetowened by a wide range of hands.

This. And bet bigger on the flop and turn.

[urbansprawler]

Originally Posted by given1982

This. And bet bigger on the flop and turn.

+1 C/C will only work vs LAGs imo,

[chinz]

There is no missed draws and I don't believe anyone would turn something like flopped top pair into a bluff here, so C/C is not good here, even against borderline maniac LAGs.

[couriermike]

Bet bigger and bet/fold river, copy that, thank you.

[couriermike]

Yeah, in the hand above I decided to c/c thinking worse might bet rather than call, and I did wind up value-towning myself pretty bad against AJ.

I do like betting bigger because it erases alot of doubts if you get raised on the river, not to mention all the value when you're good. Isn't it weird that when you finally get a good hand you start betting small so they 'don't get away?'

[Silverthunder]

by betting, we are trying to get value out of like a 2 pair hand, like an 8 - 10. Is that the objective? And the problem is that the passive player would not bet that hand on the river. The loose passive, we hypothesize, will just bet the flush or straight on the river. I think I would change my answer to agree with that

In my post, paragraph 2 and 3, I was saying that we have to bet this against TAGs because otherwise they will see an opportunity to bluff at us. They can see that we are scared of the river card and barrel back at us.