Weak Top Pair {50NL}

[urbansprawler]

Villain is a LAGgy (30/24) semi-donk; 5% limp.

I timed out on the river FWIW and wasn't able to think about it fully.

Bet/fold looks good?

His AF was <2

[given1982]

The flop donk is pretty meh. What are you trying to accomplish with the turn barrel? I don't really understand your read, because you're saying that someone with an AF < 2 is a LAG, but I'd just c/f the river, especially after betting the flop and turn.

[urbansprawler]

Yeah he was LAGgy pre but passive postflop. He had displayed a high tendency to call bets, so obviously I bet turn for value.

Why wouldn't I donk the flop? I need to bet for protection, as well as for value.

[Spinage]

The flop donk is a bit... well, meh. It isn't wrong, as you said, you need to bet for protection and value, but it's not exactly optimal since as he rarely calls worse in a 4 way pot, but there is a better chance he will bet when he's checked to with a worse hand than yours. Also (altho highly unlikely in a 4 way pot) donk bets anger people, and you can't call a raise.

I much prefer check/call the flop, re-evaluate turn (folding most of them to any agression).

He may call a lot of bets, but you have to give him a lot more credit in a pot with 4 players than if you were just HU with him. Not many people are gonna call a double barrel on a J high turn with less than a pair of sixes against someone who bet out OOP into 3 other people... minimum he has is A6, and when he bets the river, your crushed.

[uofi2012]

Why did you bet so small on each street? I would bet bigger on the flop and turn.

I think leading the flop is fine, and much better that c/c, it is dry and your hand is unlikely to improve, but probably best right now. The 2b is also okay in my book, but you have to plan out what you are going to do when you fire the 2b. I think b/f is bad on the riv since you can't really get called by worse. As played c/c on the riv or c/f are both ok, depending on how he plays. If he floats a lot and is aggro on the riv, obv c/c becomes pretty obv, he could have been floating with straight draws or naked overs/air. BTN call of a minraise doesnt really reveal too much about his range, except that it is super wide and probably not premium, if he is at all thinking. I would say he usually shows up with a turned J or 4 and the rest is just air, unless you have a read that he makes random/ unknowledgably thin bets. This spot is pretty read dependent... how does he play postflop specifically?

[urbansprawler]

Stationy, likes to see showdowns. (I think, haven't seen too much post from him)

[Spinage]

Let me put my whole post in simpler terms.

What are you hoping to get called by on 2 streets that 69 beats.

On a side note: I think what you need to do, is take better more realistic reads on your opponent and not develop fantasy, optimistic styles for them that suit your hand. You said he was laggy, but then you said he is passive post flop, saying his AF is less than 2 (that really doesn't help.. does that mean like.. 0.1? or 1.9.) and THEN said you don't have much on him postflop.

So for a player you don't have much on post flop, you seem to be soul reading him pretty hard, double barreling a pair of 6's bad kicker into a J high board after leading a 4 way pot OOP for value? Your repping at least A6 yourself, actually better since as the J doesn't phase you, nor the 3 other players.

A 'LAG' in general, will have good hand reading skills to consitently play that style and be confidently agressive with a wide range of hands. He definitely think you have more than 69.


Btw, I know this post seems quite harsh, but it's not, it's just something for you to consider and there aren't many good ways of putting it without being blunt.

[urbansprawler]

I don't see how doing anything but double barreling here can be good tbh.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Why wouldn't I donk the flop? I need to bet for protection, as well as for value.

Protection from what? Value from what? Honestly, the flop might be a c/f unless the bet is from someone that stabs all the time. I think preflop is fine, but just because you're getting such ridiculous odds--I'm not looking to put in a bunch of money with a pair of 6s with no kicker though.

[uofi2012]

Spinage, what range do you think Villain has on the riv?

I think you expect too much out of the villain. Just because he has LAG stats, does not mean he is a good LAG. There are tons of bad LAGs that just love to play pots and bully people. I also don't think c/c the flop is a good line in general here, as it is multiway and bluffs should be uncommon and you are OOP, making further streets way more difficult.

As for a 2b defense. I think that the flop bet is fine, a little small, but leading here is not bad, you have to thin the field and protect your equity. On the turn, the BTN doesn't need a lot to call IP for 1/2 pot, so the 2b is to take him off his overs and overs+draw.

Again, I still think the bet on the flop and the bet on the turn especially, are too small. If he had bet bigger the opponents range would be more defined and he would have had more FE, imo, but what kind of range do you think the opponent value bets the riv with, especially so small?

Still super read dependent as all of poker is, but w/e. Hard to really give a good answer with so little info.

@urbansprawler, c/f somewhere cant be bad, you def still need some kind of a read here to 2b. Again, why did you bet so small?