Turn a straight but fear a possible better straight

[Silverthunder]

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($24.90)
Button ($83.25)
SB ($56.85)
Hero (BB) ($50)
UTG ($46)
MP ($13.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7:spade:, 6:diamond:
3 folds, Button bets $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25) 5:diamond:, J:club:, 9:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.65, Button calls $1.65

Turn: ($5.55) 8:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $4.15, Button raises to $8.30, Hero ???


I think that I should just call here and hope that I can get to showdown quickly & that he has a 2 pair, like 89 or something, or has the same hand as me. Fold to river aggression, of course.

Also, feel free to comment on preflop call. Players at this limit like to do that min raise just as their standard raise, not necessarily because of their hand strength.
I may have had some notes on the villain but I wasn't able to check before he left the able. I think he just seemed like a TAG, I know I haven't played with him very much.

[urbansprawler]

I'm probably trying to raise/fold or ship it in on the turn depending on some other information, but the real problem with this hand is the flop. Why did you donk bet?

As played, turn could be a lot of 2prs/sets and if the villain isn't overly-fishy and doesn't look he draws to gutshots or he looks like he'd raise an open-ender on the flop (hopefully both), I don't mind shipping it.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

I'm probably trying to raise/fold or ship it in on the turn depending on some other information, but the real problem with this hand is the flop. Why did you donk bet?

Because I have a gutshot and so I either have to bet or check raise really. I don't like c/r at these stakes because the players call you too much. You play c/r and c/f lines here?

As played, turn could be a lot of 2prs/sets and if the villain isn't overly-fishy and doesn't look he draws to gutshots or he looks like he'd raise an open-ender on the flop (hopefully both), I don't mind shipping it

No, your average player would tend not to raise open enders on the flop. The fishy ones that you come across call with the gutshot. That is probably one of the bigger leaks to exploit from the fish that I have come across.

A raise like that on the turn is real strength, IMO.

[urbansprawler]

Why is a gutshot worthy of a bet here? Honestly, i think c/f is the best fold with c/r also fine sometimes.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Why is a gutshot worthy of a bet here? Honestly, i think c/f is the best fold with c/r also fine sometimes.

If he calls the raise and the turn blanks you then give up on 4th st?

[podbelski]

As I see, T7/TQ beats you, with much more 2pair/sets/pair+draw hands left for him to be played like this...

So I'd better think about how to get it in w/ his worse hands

[given1982]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Why is a gutshot worthy of a bet here? Honestly, i think c/f is the best fold with c/r also fine sometimes.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

If he calls the raise and the turn blanks you then give up on 4th st?

Mostly you should just be check/folding. But if you c/r and get called, whether to follow up on the turn should depend on villain (you don't seem to know/haven't told us much) and the card. I would be more likely to follow up on an 8, T, Q, K, or maybe an A.

[chinz]

I am actually a big fan of donkbetting (especially in HU), because that seems to confuse a lot of regulars (and make them do stuff like raise the donkbet and bet turn with no equity). Also because that's extremely annoying (I hate when someone donkbets to me!), and I believe that annoying my opponents is +EV in the long run.

I usually donkbet either for value (hoping to induce a raise so I can calldown) or with a draw, hoping to get to 3bet (people raise donkbets very much with air) with massive FE.

With gutshots and such, check/raising (most of the time check/folding, ofc) is better.

I make notes of stuff like this, if I have several times donk-3bet or donk-called with strong hands against someone and I believe he's the kind of guy who could actually notice that, I might start donkbet bluffing. I wouldn't do it as my first donkbet(s) though, without some history or reads.



There's a few exception to my "donkbetting guidelines" tho... For example, I once took a donkbet+3betshove line with 60bb effective stacks and JQ into AATr board against an aggro villain. But I'm doing that purely for FE and the those stack sizes are good for it. I still have enough to make Tx fold, but not enough to make that a huge spew.

Players at this limit like to do that min raise just as their standard raise, not necessarily because of their hand strength.

This might be somewhat unrelated, but some people also prefer minraises or 2.5bb raises always from the button. Especially at higher stakes.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by chinz

I am actually a big fan of donkbetting (especially in HU), because that seems to confuse a lot of regulars (and make them do stuff like raise the donkbet and bet turn with no equity). Also because that's extremely annoying (I hate when someone donkbets to me!), and I believe that annoying my opponents is +EV in the long run.

I usually donkbet either for value (hoping to induce a raise so I can calldown) or with a draw, hoping to get to 3bet (people raise donkbets very much with air) with massive FE.

With gutshots and such, check/raising (most of the time check/folding, ofc) is better.

I make notes of stuff like this, if I have several times donk-3bet or donk-called with strong hands against someone and I believe he's the kind of guy who could actually notice that, I might start donkbet bluffing. I wouldn't do it as my first donkbet(s) though, without some history or reads.



There's a few exception to my "donkbetting guidelines" tho... For example, I once took a donkbet+3betshove line with 60bb effective stacks and JQ into AATr board against an aggro villain. But I'm doing that purely for FE and the those stack sizes are good for it. I still have enough to make Tx fold, but not enough to make that a huge spew.



This might be somewhat unrelated, but some people also prefer minraises or 2.5bb raises always from the button. Especially at higher stakes.

I think at the tables that I am used to at the micors, the players dont cbet enough. Therefore, I like to donk into them and take it down. I really think that equitywise, this is best.

I like leading out if the flop is unlikely to have hit for the villain. This flop doesn't hit them that much; it is rainbow w/ no ace, K, or Qs

Against a regular that cbets a lot, I like the lines that you are describing, Chinz.

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

I think at the tables that I am used to at the micors, the players dont cbet enough. Therefore, I like to donk into them and take it down. I really think that equitywise, this is best.

I like leading out if the flop is unlikely to have hit for the villain. This flop doesn't hit them that much; it is rainbow w/ no ace, K, or Qs

I like the donkbet here. but then again im a spewtard

Think its cheaper than check/raising and we don't really have that great a draw to be worth a check/raise.
Also think that betting out > check/folding on this board because when you turn the straight like you do, villain will often have pair+draw or 2pair that he won't be folding.

I would get it in now, his minreraise indicates that he is most likely a bad player and bad players are known to overplay 2pair especially when the board doesnt show obvious threats like 3 to a flush would.
You don't want to just call because he will get scared if a 4th straightening card comes or an overcard if he has a small 2pair.