Nice 2 pair hand, then an ungly turn, villain shoves

[Silverthunder]

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($52.25)
Button ($17.55)
Hero (SB) ($56.15)
BB ($81.10)
UTG ($26.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J:spade:, A:heart:
2 folds, Button bets $1, Hero calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($3) A:club:, J:heart:, 9:heart: (3 players)
Hero bets $2.15, 1 fold, Button calls $2.15

Turn: ($7.30) Q:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button raises to $14.40 (All-In), Hero calls $9.40

River: ($36.10) 7:diamond: (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $36.10


We are really just scared of an AQ which is just one hand so I am pretty sure it's a call, right?

I don't think that I had any notes on the guy but I did not get a chance to check before he left the table. He had not done anything crazy during this particular session.

[AdrienD]

why did you donkbet the flop?

I would expect the button to cbet a decent amount here and when he does have a hand he's bet/calling a ton w/ weaker hands so check/raising is so much better.

His range is 99/JJ sometimes, AQ and KT also. But his stack is so short he looks bad and I think he will be shoving any ace here, so yeah you have to call.

Against someone with about 2x pot left on turn I always first consider check/shoving.
This isnt a great spot for it b/c he will c behind a decent amount unless he has an ace or better which he isnt folding anyway, but if the turn was for example a 2 of spades check/shoving could easily be better b/c he will bet his FDs and weak made hands a ton & might be commited after his bet.

Just something to think about..

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by AdrienD

why did you donkbet the flop?

I would expect the button to cbet a decent amount here and when he does have a hand he's bet/calling a ton w/ weaker hands so check/raising is so much better.

His range is 99/JJ sometimes, AQ and KT also. But his stack is so short he looks bad and I think he will be shoving any ace here, so yeah you have to call.

Against someone with about 2x pot left on turn I always first consider check/shoving.
This isnt a great spot for it b/c he will c behind a decent amount unless he has an ace or better which he isnt folding anyway, but if the turn was for example a 2 of spades check/shoving could easily be better b/c he will bet his FDs and weak made hands a ton & might be commited after his bet.

Just something to think about..

donk because at this limit because not enough cbet A high board. It's still mostly on the level "I will cbet because the flop probably didn't hit my opponent or it hit me." It is not mostly on the level of "my opponent will believe my cbet."

Even though this is a good 2 pair hand, it is still somewhat vulnerable on the board. I don't want him checking behind.

that is interesting strategy. I will have to consider doing that vs. an opponent that has some aggression.

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

donk because at this limit because not enough cbet A high board. It's still mostly on the level "I will cbet because the flop probably didn't hit my opponent or it hit me." It is not mostly on the level of "my opponent will believe my cbet."

Even though this is a good 2 pair hand, it is still somewhat vulnerable on the board. I don't want him checking behind.

that is interesting strategy. I will have to consider doing that vs. an opponent that has some aggression.

if he checks behind he most likely doesnt even have a jack or a good draw so you wont paid anyway.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by AdrienD

if he checks behind he most likely doesnt even have a jack or a good draw so you wont paid anyway.

He might suck out on us with the free card, though.

You do have a point here but a big reason why I am giving you credit is that he is short stacked & we can get it all in on the river anyway.

Also, on the flop, donks (not that we know this guy is a donk) like to call bets because they still have 2 cards to suck out on you on.

"I call any two because I might hit my back door two pair or backdoor trips"

[chinz]

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

We are really just scared of an AQ which is just one hand so I am pretty sure it's a call, right?

Are you saying that AA, QQ, JJ, 99, T8 and KT are not in his range? He could fold KT to flop donk, but for all other hands his line makes sense.

We have to call because he's shortstack and probably shoving any hand that he'll continue with here... but that doesn't mean we're happy about that.

He will probably always cbet A high board (well, he might check back with something like QQ or other PP, but they only have 2 outs) so I don't see any reason for donkbetting. Just check/raise the flop and you'll get it in if he has oesd, fd or top pair.

So, by donkbetting you are probably only getting it in when he has a good draw or A, but when you check to him, you'll get one extra bet out of most of the hands that missed the flop.

If he has a hand he's willing to check back against you here, you are not really worried about him sucking out when you have two pair. There isn't really hands that he'd check back that have more than 2-4 outs against your hand so protecting your hand is not an issue.