A couple hands for review

[csfanatikdbz]

Are these hands:
A.) standard as played?
B.) optimal as played?

Hand 1:

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($9.82)
BB ($10.57)
UTG ($13.81)
MP ($5.90)
Hero (CO) ($18.01)
Button ($10.96)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 8
2 folds, Hero bets $0.30, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 5, 9, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($0.75) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

River: ($2.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3

Total pot: $8.25


Hand 2:

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($15.66)
CO ($2.23)
Button ($3.31)
SB ($5.80)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($15.52)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
UTG calls $0.10, MP bets $0.65, CO raises to $2.23 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero raises to $10 (All-In), 1 fold, MP calls $9.25



Hand 3:

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($10.46)
CO ($9.80)
Button ($13.97)
SB ($13.51)
Hero (BB) ($20.51)
UTG ($8.97)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.40, MP calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.90) Q, 9, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.55, MP raises to $1.28, Hero calls $0.73

Turn: ($3.46) K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1.73, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.46

[given1982]

Tell us something about villains to get better answers.

Assuming they're unknowns:

1)This is played terribly. Bomb the flop, turn, and river.
2)Standard/good.
3)Why are you calling the flop raise?

[urbansprawler]

Originally Posted by given1982

Tell us something about villains to get better answers.

Assuming they're unknowns:

1)This is played terribly. Bomb the flop, turn, and river.
2)Standard/good.
3)Why are you calling the flop raise?

Agreed on all points.

Hand 1 is played especially bad imo. Better off c/r river than donk betting if anything.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Better off c/r river than donk betting if anything.

True.

[mxrider]

Have to totally agree with given on all 3 of these hands.

1. Yes, you flopped the uber nuts, but there are sooooooo many draws to get value from, just bet bet bet and hope he has As and hits.
2. Fine
3. Just dump this on his flop raise. Yes, you have a gutshot, but you are unlikely to get his whole stack if it hits and are going to just get value owned here.

[tmiby]

1) bet bet bet
2) got coolered, hmmm? standart
3) fold flop

[csfanatikdbz]

Originally Posted by tmiby

2) got coolered, hmmm? standart

No, I flopped quads lol

[urbansprawler]

I think you need to work on playing your monsters. They are the most important part of a player's range as they are the only range you can comfortably push all-in, and your game plan should almost always revolve around monsters

[csfanatikdbz]

Playing monsters is easy preflop. I've never heard anyone say "when you flop the nuts you should always bet out on a super wet board!" I always hear everyone say you have to let the other play catch up. In the case where I flopped a straight flush draw, which has never happened to me before, I definitely think I could have got more money leading out in that specific situation because the player had 2 pair, but anyone w/o a big spade, a straight, an OP, or 2 pair is probably folding there. Next time I'll lead out, but I hope they don't fold lol.

[urbansprawler]

Originally Posted by csfanatikdbz

I've never heard anyone say "when you flop the nuts you should always bet out on a super wet board!" I always hear everyone say you have to let the other play catch up.

I don't understand wtf you are saying. Do you understand what a wet board is? By definition, a 'wet' board is a board that hits an opponent's range well. Why would you not want to bet the nuts? Also, most standard wet boards by this definition are very drawy and any "catching up" is likely to beat your hand if you have anything but the immortal nuts.

Also, why would you want to check and hope he hits his flush and stack him? He can check twice and the river will brick out and he will fold the As with a grunt and a "nh." Had you bet the flop and the turn, you would've earned much more money and still have had the chance to stack him on a spade. Not only that, but had you bet large on flop and turn, there is a chance he will hit a pair and spazz-call or even shove.

Slowplaying is terrible 99% of the time and there are very few spots I could see it as being +EV as compared to betting and those spots are either for very advanced metagame or in very obvious spots (such as AA on A92 vs a good regular, especially in a 3-bet pot where he can flat call JJ-KK preflop every so often).

Like I said, all GTO strategies and most exploitative strategies, and absolutely all at the micros, must be based around playing monsters. 2p2 has a tendency to review marginal spots and focus on making .5-1bb more with TPGK or .25bb more with second pair, but I don't give a shit about those hands if I can make 40bb more with my nut flushes. Learn to play your monsters, they are the most important part of your range by far and are the only part of your range you can always jam - GET ACTION WITH THEM!!!

Also realize the absolute value of your hand has no bearing in poker. Ace-high can be effectively the nuts at times, and four of a kind can be mere showdown value (such as on TJQKssss vs some opponents). While these are extreme examples, remember that it's not about "okay I don't want to make him fold so I slowplay sets and better", it's about "what does this mahfuckah have, what does this mahfuckah think I have, and how can I make this mahfuckah pay me off (or fold)" Sometimes you might even think "How can I get this mahfuckah to tilt?"

Also, you are not thinking about the future. It's as if you're playing each street one at a time. If a pot on the flop is X and you bet the flop and turn full-pot, the size of the pot on the river is 9 times as much on the flop!". You're going to win a 27 unit pot betting flop, turn, and river with your nuts full-pot as compared to a 9 unit pot on the turn. If we are excluding draws and other complications to avoid getting bogged down in calculations, as long as your opponent is calling 3 streets with greater than or equal to 1/4 of the range he is calling 2 streets with, you do far better by betting 3 streets.

Betting in NLHE grows geometrically, and this is precisely why the top of your range is the most important part of your range. There are spots I bluff 100%; such as let's say the board came J52 rainbow after I 3-bet a LAG player preflop. If I have a TAG image, I don't give a shit what the turn and river are, I'm betting hard because LAG will never have QQ+ if we have any sort of 3-betting dynamic, whereas those hands are all in my range.

I won't go into complex bluffing/value theory here to prove why you need to bet in hand 1, just do it next time and come back with brags instead of moans. That's my promise to you. Play your strong hands fast and you won't complain about "bad beats" that you led your opponents into, you're going to come and say "Maannn these guys are sooooo bad, I just 3-barrelled full pot with my straight flush and this donk called me with TOP PAIR, even when the river PUT AN OVERCARD TO THE BOARD TO MAKE A NEW TOP PAIR!"

Really don't know why I wrote so much, could've just posted a link to a video or something but I hope you will correct your mistakes in the future and not argue with players who have gone through the levels you've gone through, struggled just as you have, and then come back to help and share their experiences.

I also don't understand one thing. Let's assume slowplaying flop is +EV (again, it's not, but let's go into LaLaLand for a discussion). Why do you only c/c turn?

And why did you donk bet river?

EDIT: Wow, realized this post is so long I can use it as part of a PSA in the future. I'll edit it up and restructure it, then repost it as a pooh-bah kind of thing.