Argument over this hand w/ friend

[csfanatikdbz]

My friend is a live player and he knows odds and the math, and is a pretty solid player overall, but he is more of a feel player and loves to just say eff it and go with his reads sometimes. He has very little exp online at micro stakes, plenty in freerolls. He was playing on my Players Only account and I told him to check the turn and fold the river. He wanted to either bet/call the turn, bet/fold the turn (unlikely, but he wasn't wanting to fold the river), or check behind the turn and call the river. What do you guys think?

Looking back at the hand, I see a possibility that the villain had a flush draw on the flop, but regaurdless of the turn play I stand by my river stance of fold 99 out of 100 times here. I also probably wouldn't have 3bet the flop to a check / minraise, maybe to a standard minraise but probably not. I understand not wanting to let any overcards T-K hit top pair, and taking down the pot here w/ a vulnerable but very likely best hand much of the time has its merrits.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($4)
SB ($3.90)
BB ($3.64)
UTG ($3.23)
MP ($5.32)
CO ($4.81)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 9
1 fold, MP calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold, BB calls $0.12, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.38) 9, 7, 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.22, BB raises to $0.44, Hero raises to $1.20, BB calls $0.76

Turn: ($2.78) 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.78) 3 (2 players)
BB raises to $2.28 (All-In), Hero ???

Total pot: $2.78

[tmiby]

ok....I think, obviously some things went wrong here...

Pre: fine

flop: cbet is fine. 3betting is kinda crazy at this limit! I probably would never do that at microstackes. Yes he could be on a flush draw. And if he is, he probably has 2 overs as well, what makes him a favorite. maybe he has a set - makes him favorit.
However, I tend to call the minraise.

Turn: What's the reason for 3betting the flop and checking back the turn when FD doesn't hit??????? The 10 could make the straight, but this is very unlikely.
I bet turn.

River: as played I fold.


Summary: call or even fold flop. better bet turn then river.

[Nostalgica]

Shove turn or c/f. Alternatively, bet/call flop.

[urbansprawler]

Originally Posted by Nostalgica

Shove turn or c/f. Alternatively, bet/call flop.

+1

I think bet/call is best here.

[TheDeKay]

I like the flop 3bet... BB is defending, there are tons of weaker 9x, flush and straight draws in his range (and we have a readraw to a FD).

Don't know why you guys want to bet-call here. Villain doesn't even have a pot sized bet left - I prefer to just ship the turn.

[csfanatikdbz]

Good stuff guys. The reason the turn was checked behind and the river was a c/f was because I came over to the computer after he had 3bet the flop. I was telling him I disagreed w/ the 3bet and he should have just called the flop and gone from there. Since the villain check, minraise, called the flop, that's some obvious strength. I guess as played on the flop we could have shipped the turn but all we are beating is flush draws and bluffs. We still lose to sets, overpairs, 2 pair, straights, and any draws that might get there if the villain can't fold a draw.

[urbansprawler]

Originally Posted by TheDeKay

I like the flop 3bet... BB is defending, there are tons of weaker 9x, flush and straight draws in his range (and we have a readraw to a FD).

Don't know why you guys want to bet-call here. Villain doesn't even have a pot sized bet left - I prefer to just ship the turn.

Not trying to sound rude, but you think a 3-bet here gets called by enough worse hands, but the AJ hand on the turn doesn't?

3-betting here is overvalueing imo, but I would bet turn IP.

[tmiby]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

3-betting here is overvalueing imo, but I would bet turn IP.

Agree.

@TheDeKay: k. if you 3bet flop I think it is a 100% turn shove. because hands that you beat on flop are most often draws. since river doesn't complete FD: shove it.

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Not trying to sound rude, but you think a 3-bet here gets called by enough worse hands, but the AJ hand on the turn doesn't?

3-betting here is overvalueing imo, but I would bet turn IP.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed)

^^ = all that needs to be said.

fish love to c/minraise top pair and second pair and it is way more likely that he can't let them go vs a 3bet than that he is good enough to recognize he is beat.

as played jam turn.

[TheDeKay]

Originally Posted by urbansprawler

Not trying to sound rude, but you think a 3-bet here gets called by enough worse hands, but the AJ hand on the turn doesn't?

3-betting here is overvalueing imo, but I would bet turn IP.

I'm pretty sure, that there are enough worse hands, that pay us off here. He might call /w a weaker 9 and there are soooo many draws out there.
(Imo: We can 3bet here against weak and strong opponents - but not vs semi-strong players.)
Another problem: If you call his flop minraise there are many turn cards that scare him and give us a really hard decision when he bets again.
+ We are likely to get value towned by hands that beat us anyways

After he just calls our raise, I think we can ship most turns, since he should just shove the flop most of the time with sets and 2pair.