JJ in trouble?

[ourfarmpica]

Villain is an loose passive 60/16 pre, f/t/r agg is 1/1/2 , fold to cbet 42%, my image is TAG at the table. No reads about him.

Button ($4.08)
SB ($1.63)
BB ($5.44)
Hero (UTG) ($5.41)
MP ($3.97)
CO ($4.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J
Hero bets $0.06, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.21, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.45) 3, 6, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, Button calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.05) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, Button raises to $2.85,


Hero?

[given1982]

Why did you lead the flop?

[podbelski]

As played, snap-fold the turn.

The most valuable stat here is his preflop 3bet%. But I'm almost sure it reps KK+ only Occassional QQ/AK are somewhat possible though, who knows.

So, on the flop you bet only to protect against not very likely AK, right? No better hands fold, no worse hands call. Once he called your donkbet, the only good possibility is he is stubborn with his unlikely AK, and now he raises...

I think you should ask yourself while preflop: why am I calling this 3bet? What do I hope for to beat his range? Then postflop will be simple

[ourfarmpica]

I bet because he is soo passive on the flop most the times. I didnt realized it was a donkbet now i see where i did the mistake thanks a lot both of you!

[podbelski]

So, how would you have played it without a donkbet?

[ourfarmpica]

check on the flop if he checks i bet the turn if he bet i re-raise if he call or 3bet i give up...

[podbelski]

Keep raise-folding for bluffs! FWIW, it took me quite a lot of time to stop doing that with made hands. There might be rare tricky situations where raise-folding (for value) is a good play, but I advice you to just assume it is incorrect play. Whenever you have a made hand, and feel the urge to raise-fold, try to find another way to play it.

Assuming his 3bet range is QQ+/AK weghted towards pairs you call preflop basically to hit a J and stack him off cause he will pay you 100% with overpair. So, the best thing you can do is check-fold the non-J flop. The only other possibility is if he will min-cbet low flop giving you odds to call and spike a J.

[ourfarmpica]

Ok i accept it i will build it in my game. So you say play it like any small pair. My friend asked me: Can you tell me what is the different between 10 10 an JJ? I said bla bla bla he said: JJ have a lot more ink. So play it like any small pairs try to flop a set. Is that right? Overplay JJ is-EV. I should turn to passive mode..

"There might be rare tricky situations where raise-folding (for value) is a good play"
Give me an example please!

Thanks for the thoughts!

[podbelski]

In this situation against this type of villain, yes you call to set-mine. There can be other spots when you are sure opp's 3bet range is wide (including TT and Tx and more overcard combos) so your JJ can simply get more odds to be the best hand at the same time getting value from weaker made hands.

I do not have many examples, here was a small discussion that helped me to get the idea (after my question about "raising for information"):

http://www.pokertrikz.com/forums/ful...ou-fold-2.html