NL50 rush: AK OOP vs 3bet hitting TPTK

[podbelski]

Rough day, down 4.5BI in 1.5k hands, the worst day in my whole career, the most was 3BI byfar. Coolers and nasty suckouts for the most part, I think this is the only big hand I could have lost less. No reads, so do not advice to stick in pre plz

I'm still not sure how to play AK OOP when being 3bet (in rush obv), starting to think of min4bet-fold after this hand. In addition, I haven't seen anyone sticking in the whole stack pre with less than KK, so I'm already in doubts even about KK when it's getting hot pre, too many fckn aces.

On the flop, I do not see the reason to lead. Should I raise his cbet? The problem is he will fold everything I beat, and stick in AK/KK/AA/TT/AsQs, so what's the point...

What about bet-folding the turn? Not much better than raising the flop, basically I'm trying to protect my hand.

When he checked the turn I was sure my hand is good, putting him on JJ/QQ/99/AQ, hardly he would have bet those on the river so I decided to lead. If I bet less I'm not sure will he try to bluff me, I think my betsize close to proper one but couldn't fold to a raise after putting this much.

Any suggestions?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($125.25)
SB ($47.70)
BB ($72.30)
UTG ($34.85)
Hero (MP) ($50)
CO ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, K
1 fold, Hero bets $1.75, CO raises to $6, 3 folds, Hero calls $4.25

Flop: ($12.75) 4, K, 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero calls $7

Turn: ($26.75) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($26.75) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $17, CO raises to $37 (All-In), Hero calls $20 (All-In)

Total pot: $100.75 | Rake: $3

[tmiby]

for 50NL rush, I agree with your preflop play.
Into my decision I consider his 3bet frequency preflop (do you have a HUD?). If someone's 3bet is lower than 3...I consider folding pre (RUSH ONLY!). If someones 3bet is well over 10, I 4bet...


Just keep one thing in mind: If you're not ready to go with it when hit A or K...what's the reason for calling his 3bet pre??
I play this hand with c/r or sometimes donking flop. most often I tend to c/r, cause people are likely to cbet 3way pots.

Of course I'm still beaten by AA and KK...tie to AK.
there is not much to do about that...

But I see him calling with AsXs (whatever his 3bet range was).
I see him calling with KQ, maybe QQ...

[podbelski]

HEM still does not provide a HUD
I'm using their "export stats to notes" feature, but for this villain there were no reads

[tmiby]

that's to bad.
Pokrttracker has a pretty nice HUD.
what do you think about my thoughts?

[podbelski]

Well, I do not like "if you are not ready to go with ... then fold pre" in general. This is too wide line to be the best, maybe I'm wrong.

For this situation, raising the flop = sticking in while flipping at best, so I want to keep his range wide. Without raising, I'm possibly getting 1 more bet from JJ/QQ.

Donking the flop will fold his air, you are missing value. And I doubt you can bet-fold the flop safely...

So basically any action other than check-calling the flop means you should be ready to put your stack in, what I do not like to do against unknown.

[practice]

I would c/r the flop 100% of the time. If I hold AK and hit A or K, there is no way I'm folding it in a 3bet pot. Check/raise -->call all-in. If u are up against AA, it's a cooler.

Just calling the flop seems so very nasty when you gonna be out of position and the board is that draw heavy...

[podbelski]

Well, if you CR 100% and understand you will fold almost all weaker hands (maybe like QQ will not beleive you occassionally and shove), and you are fine getting in flipping/dead just for the sake of easy play, I do not argue, for me this is kinda the simplest and transparent line which I can, but do not love to take as a default.

Conversely, keeping his range wide without showing strength is so attractive for me. Like he 3bet me with AsQx pre, definitely cbets, but I'm just calling, and he can put MANY weaker hands into my range and barrel the turn... QQ/JJ will have same problems guessing what to do after I did not fold. Doesn't this look more profitable? Well maybe draws will prefer to take a free card instead of 2barreling, what I'm trying to say it is possible weaker hands will give more money, and they won't do this if you check-raise the flop. Maybe my thought process is flawed, but I will be glad to see clear convincing explanations what's wrong exactly and why.

Maybe your point was that the board has straight/flush draws, so sticking in is a must to protect? Or, if this was normal game and you want to balance your bluff/draws check-raises with stronger hands against particular villain, then I understand CR-ing is good

[tmiby]

Originally Posted by podbelski

what I'm trying to say it is possible weaker hands will give more money, and they won't do this if you check-raise the flop.

I'm not sure if there is a way to make him putting more money in if he can't beat a K.
Of course it's kind of simple and aggressiv to CRAI...but honestly, I don't see a way of getting more money in from weaker hands - so I decide to take whats there.

reasons for CRAI or c/r: I belive he calls with Kx, draws and sometimes JJ or QQ.

why I not like flatting: he can set the price for his draws (where 7 into 13 is probably a good price). there are many scard cards that could kill the action or scare me.
scare: T,J,Q...a little scared of any spades..
killers: any A could kill the action from underpairs. any K too.


After all, I think it's easier to take the money on the flop and hope he calls with weaker hands.
On later streets you probably only get actions from hands that beat you.

a word about barreling:
I'm not sure if people double barrel in 3bet pots often enough to justify a call on flop. When I call a cbet in a 3bet pot oop, I usually have a medium to strong hand. most often I'm ready to call another barrel / or shove.
In general the pot grows easy to 50BB...and the bigger the pot, the less likely I'm gonna fold, the less likely is a double barrel from villain successful.

[podbelski]

Good thoughts, thanks

one more post from most experienced members saying like "check-calling is worse than check-raising here" and I will feel convinced

[Qgel]

check-calling is worse than check-raising here.

Also I wish my worst day was only 4.5 BIs... *sadface*