Positional and aggression question verse certain players

[nuvan]

Im a pretty reasonable micro stakes player who can easily outplay most loose passives, nits and regulars (to some extent).
But there are 2 types of players which i constantly lose money to maniacs who will always come along for the ride and are on my BB when im in position and people to my right who are reasonable players and always call my CO/ HJ PFR's with virtually ATC and call down most of my C-Bets and even double barrels, and once the river comes i check and they fire out a half pot or bigger bet and I virtually always fold(not including made hands i always value bet my hands if i have one).
How should i play these 2 types of players should i tighten up in general ? Just don't bother stealing blinds and wait for decent hands then value bet the hell out of them? (i've experimented with it small amount but to little or no profit as i turn into a nit who can be read like a book).
Also theres another smaller stake player who i generally lose alot of money to (just remembered) people who like gay betting multiple streets even if raised fairly strongly, usually the line is gay bet(i raise),gay bet (i call), they do a fairly big bet on river (or continue gay betting) and i have no idea what so ever what to do.
Cheers for any help,
Nuvan.

[TheDeKay]

Don't play back against maniacs. If you know, that he is a maniac you know at the same time, that he just plays to have fun and to bluff like hell. So just sit back... relax... and get it in with good hands.
Against stations: Don't bluff, but valuebet thin + if they like to fire out a half pot bluff on the river, why do you value-bet your made hands? Just c/c or c/r depending on your hand.
You have to find out, what hands they play with gaybets and adjust. If they gaybet big hands: Call with draws cheaply; If they gaybet with draws or medium strengh hands: Raise if they can fold their medium strengh hands with about ATC and if they can not fold, I would call them down /w weak top pairs and strong second pairs and value bet /w strong top pairs and overpairs+.

[nuvan]

So verse these bluff maniacs for lack of a better term i should play it alot more passively if i have TPTK or should i just lead out on 3 streets verse these maniacs or just C-bet, check, c/r ?
That would make alot of sense its just i find i can quite easily give free cards or not gain value, so i guess it would be very board dependent?
And so to gain information for the gaybetting pattern i would have to call down these bigger bets for later play? That would make sense its just these sorts of players dont play for long stretches of time or regularly so if i do pay to find out information i may not use this information again (as there alot of hit and runners).
So would it be better just to play alot more ABC verse both of these players and just wait for a reasonable hand and then just hope they have something also and value bet?
P.S. i only play 0.01/0.02c right now im just trying to work out alot of kinks before i move up.
So this might just be a micro micro stake problem.
Cheers for the quick response,
Nuvan

[TheDeKay]

At 0.01/0.02$ just do never ever bluff the turn or river. Make your CB and be done with the hand, if you don't have something reasonable.

Against maniacs show weakness! If you hit TPTK make a CB of about 1/2p and just check the turn to them. Do not stop making Cbets against them, cause maaaaaybe (what I don't think) they will catch up on that + a small CB makes the pot muuuch larger, if he raises you. If they bluff ATC, you don't have to worry so much, that he has a draw, but if he checks behind and the board was drawheavy, don't go crazy on the river, if the 3rd flushcard comes And because they semibluff most of the time, you don'T give a freecard anyway.

Nah, you don't have to call these big bets with nothing, just to gain some knowlege. Watch the hands, that you don't play and take a look in the HH, if it's showdown time. So you can find out their holdings, without paying. And I think, that if you once found out, what they are playing, that you can use it for other gay-betters, too, cause many players use the same pattern.

Yeah, just wait for good hands against some players. You could not bluff players, that don't think about your hand and just play like: "Ahhhh, I have T4s and the board is AK4 rainbow... I go broke!"

[Stompp]

top pair is ok 1 or 2 streets value in most cases against those to ur right calling u down
2-3 streets 2pair etc
otherwise? why double barrel. hit once, then hit second button only if ure drawing to something nice or u hit something good. third barrel if draw dont hit? meh . save urself a check-raise for later as first real blood, unless its obvious he was chasing or weak
if he leads use pot odds and logic


calling stations=3streets of value with tptk or sometimes less

[ahog012]

If i am playing with a player who is giving me a hard time, i simply change tables. best advice imo. Otherwise my ego begins to take over.

But if you do have to play with these maniac people. and you find they call 2 streets then fire pot when you check the river to them, tighen up, wait for a good hand, when you get it, fire 2 streets same size, check river to them and shove over their pot raise

Against the calling stations, fire less cbets when you know they call with anything if you dont hit. Valuebet when you do hit, and just generally try to play them in position.

ABC stuff works well most of the time when playing tricky players. And knowing that you arent going to take everyones money every time is also good to remember

[nuvan]

That line of half pot betting made hands really never crossed my mind, i've always been of the mindframe 3/4- full bet if hit 1/2 - 2/3 if im semi-bluffing or c-betting air (people don't really care about bet-sizing imo so i can get away with it easily). I'll use those lines now and see if it works and get back to ya'll.

In regards to ahogo012 just wondering i always find if there giving me a hardtime i usually try to stick through it (as they are usually better players) to learn from them. But my ego does take over after a while such as 3-betting very light OOP is it wise to keep playing with them or should i just keep changing looking for fishier tables? Or should i attempt to learn from them and how they play? Or just forum troll and try to learn via that and apply to my game?

That last statement is soooooooo true "And knowing that you arent going to take everyones money every time is also good to remember", i always assume im going to pawn all without blinking an eye.

Just throwing another into the frying pan, i usually only buy in with 100 BB's although im allowed to buy in with 250BB's (1c/2c), as i find i generally play alot weaker with bigger stacks because im quite willing to go broke with fish with TPTK, but versus decent players i become scared money just wondering if i should just always buy back maximum and try to find a middle ground or just retain my current play style.
Cheers,
Nuvan.

[TheDeKay]

I think, that on the micros and maybe even the small stackes, you should play better opponents, as long as your BR is big enough. Playing fish is easy, but just remember, that you are the fish in higher limits, where you maybe want to play sometimes, so you must get better! And you don't get better by playing fish

If you feel more comforetable to play /w 100BB than play with 100BB! As long as you don't buy in for 20BB but for at least 80BB and play some kind of deepstack, where you could play the turn and the river, everything is ok

[no eff eks]

Originally Posted by ahog012

If i am playing with a player who is giving me a hard time, i simply change tables. best advice imo. Otherwise my ego begins to take over.

Extremely good advice right here.