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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2009, 08:49 AM
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Urban, while I can understand what you are saying, I think you are missing the simple point that Chinz never thought he was ahead and was strong enough on his read that villain would fold a better hand. That's really it in a nutshell.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2009, 03:27 PM
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I think you are missing the point. If he never thought he was ahead, why did he call the flop? No matter how you want to paint this hand, you can pretend chinz is a hero (although he is an idiot) with big balls for his turn raise...but then why did he call flop?

He didn't make an "amazing" read, he caught a lucky card that defined his opponent's range clearly (or so we must believe). The truth really is, he played this hand poorly and had any other card but a ten come, he would have folded and lost his money.

No matter how you look at this hand, there had to be a mistake in it.

EDIT: I meant AK/AQs > QQ+ sorry. It is close though.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:20 PM
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Both of you guys are good players that I, along with a lot of the other members of this community look up to. I am hoping that we can all bury this hatchet soon.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawler View Post
I think you are missing the point. If he never thought he was ahead, why did he call the flop? No matter how you want to paint this hand, you can pretend chinz is a hero (although he is an idiot) with big balls for his turn raise...but then why did he call flop?
I said I could have folded on the flop when I knew/thought he had a very strong range. It would've been OK. But he bets half a pot and I have an overpair, so I decided to peel one more card. Even if it is a mistake, even then it's very marginal. When that turn card came, my first thought is obviously just to give up, because now I beat almost nothing. But then, he makes that very small bet, which (as I believe) meant he did have an underpair to the ace, so I figured I can actually win this hand.

Quote:
he caught a lucky card that defined his opponent's range clearly (or so we must believe). The truth really is, he played this hand poorly and had any other card but a ten come, he would have folded and lost his money.
Yes, you could certainly say so. I would have lost this pot on any other turn card than T or A, so I did (in a way) catch a lucky turn.

Quote:
No matter how you look at this hand, there had to be a mistake in it.
I don't really understand what street I played so awfully, but I hope you can tell me. Are you really saying that calling a half pot cbet on the flop is that awful? Other than that, I think I played this hand optimally against him. But anyway, If I had to choose one street I misplayed in this hand, I would choose the flop.


PS. You've already called me douche and idiot in this thread, you're making yourself look really nice guy IMO. Right from your first reply you've been very hostile in this thread, any reasons for that?
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Last edited by chinz; 09-16-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2009, 07:55 PM
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Of course there's a reason for it. You didn't have any reads in your first few posts and then once I called you out on it you edited everything. That's what makes you a lowlife.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawler View Post
Of course there's a reason for it. You didn't have any reads in your first few posts and then once I called you out on it you edited everything. That's what makes you a lowlife.
I have posted all the last edit dates from my post, only reply I have edited after your reply is the #9... and there was no new reads in it. You know that, and I have no idea what you have against me.

...And this is a BBV post, not a strategy post where I'm asking "is my line good?" (because I don't think anyone can answer that accurately, without seeing the whole session) so I didn't really see any reason, why I should type out my reasoning for those two presumptions (is this the right english word??) in my OP. But when you post "You played this hand terrible." without knowing why I played it like this (or even telling me why you think it's terrible), I think it's pretty obvious that you just wanted to bash me for some reason.


Let's go over this once again:

My first post:
Quote:
I was very confident in both
A) He had me beat
B) He didn't have A in his hand
Post #3:
Quote:
Because he has bigger pocket pair than me but I believe I can make him fold, I'm almost only afraid of set of aces. When the last A comes on the river, I'm not concerned about AAAA obviously.
Quote:
And? I knew exactly what he had, because of his betsizes and notes from previous hands and how he's played his strong hands before and how he deals with scarecards.

Against an unknown this bluff would be just awful, complete spew. Against this guy however, the way this hand went down, I'm confident that this was a +EV play.
And most importantly:
Quote:

I've seen him min-3bet KK and QQ preflop (=> he's min3bet range is ultra-strong) and that his weak bets when overcards/scarecards come are scared...

Usually (and against any decent player) that river card would've made my bluff even worse, but in this case (when I'm not even trying to make any Ax to fold) it's actually a good card for me, because it makes less likely that he has A.
Post #6:
Quote:
You probably know me well enough from my earlier posts, that I'm not someone that would desperation bluff that river card (which YES, in theory should be the worst possible card to bluff the river, without history vs. villain). I've made some bad bluffs (see my latest nl100 cold-4bet thread where I get owned), but I was so confident with my read on this guy, that I don't consider this one of those.


So, what are those reads that were missing in my earlier posts? (rhetorical question btw, I know you don't have answer to this, you just wanted to diss me for some reason)


PS. Even if I never typed out my reads here, shouldn't this paragraph in my original post, (which has never been edited btw) make it clear that I must've had some:
Quote:
I was very confident in both
A) He had me beat
B) He didn't have A in his hand


PPS.
It's funny how you first were "I can't wait to see what given says about this" and when he likes it, first you say he's leveling and when he says he isn't, then you just ignore them. Then you say that I have no clue about the possible combinations (which doesn't matter too much really, because the way he plays his hand is defining his range more) and ironically you're the one who doesn't understand combinatorics.

Then I am a lowlife for "editing out everything" when I remove one "vs. random" (which I did admit, because that question was unrelevant really) and add paragraphs where I just go over the things I had already said in my earlier posts, but in more depth, because you didn't seem to understand them.


I don't really want to get personal here, but I'd appreciate if you didn't post in my threads in the future, I don't want to have anything to do with you and I don't think I'll get anything out of your opinions in strategy threads either.


And the last edit:
Here's the last edit dates of my first page posts just to proof that you're accusation of editing my posts after your replies is a lie. I already posted them, but you ignored them (just like everything else in this thread that doesn't work in your favor)
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Last edited by chinz; 09-17-2009 at 05:08 AM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2009, 03:14 PM
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I used to do this at 50NL when I tried to move up. I just needed to move up 1 more level! And they would have respected my raises!!! DAMN IT!

Last edited by nawhead; 09-19-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2009, 11:31 PM
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Chinz.

You have proven many times that you are a moron.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2009, 04:21 AM
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2009, 01:35 AM
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urban, you make it sad!

Come come.. he not mean it.

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