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Old 09-15-2009, 10:41 AM
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Default Reading souls

weaktight | Hand | TT - $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem

This is probably the sickest read I've ever made in 6max. I know that river card was probably the worst card in the deck to bluff and any A is a full house and not folding...

I was very confident in both
A) He had me beat
B) He didn't have A in his hand



I was playing at school library with my laptop and ran good too!
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:04 AM
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this is a weird hand!

-first off, he min 3 bets you...I don't like this play. However I call to.

-c/c on turn is fine I guess. I sometimes play similar spots with c/r, to see where I'm @.

-c/rsing turn is a move, that actually represents a strong ace or a six. Honestly, I don't understand what your reason is to do so. I belive it's not your standart play...However, you get called.

- Shoving river represents a pretty strong hand. FH. this move is certanely not +EV without an ace. Keep in mind, He 3bet you pre and called the c/raised turn... however, he had to fold KK.


Well played in this case.
Most important: What were your notes on villain??? THey must have been verrrry strong!
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiby View Post
-c/c on turn is fine I guess. I sometimes play similar spots with c/r, to see where I'm @.
I'm not c/r'ing to see "where I'm at" because at this point I know for a fact (well, as sure as you're read can be) that I'm beat here always. Checkraising for information would be awful here.

I was even considering folding straight away on the flop, but I decided to call one street because he'd give up if he happens to have AK. (Yes, I don't believe he's min3betting with anything else than QQ+ and AK)

Quote:
-c/rsing turn is a move, that actually represents a strong ace or a six. Honestly, I don't understand what your reason is to do so. I belive it's not your standart play...However, you get called.
Because he has bigger pocket pair than me but I believe I can make him fold, I'm almost only afraid of set of aces. When the last A comes on the river, I'm not concerned about AAAA obviously.

Quote:
Shoving river represents a pretty strong hand. FH. this move is certanely not +EV without an ace. Keep in mind, He 3bet you pre and called the c/raised turn... however, he had to fold KK.
And? I knew exactly what he had, because of his betsizes and notes from previous hands and how he's played his strong hands before and how he deals with scarecards.

Against an unknown this bluff would be just awful, complete spew. Against this guy however, the way this hand went down, I'm confident that this was a +EV play.

This is similar to that DaEvils HH where he calls a 3bet on the flop and 4bet shoves the turn (as a bluff) in NL40k... It looks awful without history/gameflow/reads, but that doesn't mean it's always a bad play.

Quote:
Most important: What were your notes on villain??? THey must have been verrrry strong!
Yes. This is by far the sickest move I've ever made.

I've seen him min-3bet KK and QQ preflop (=> he's min3bet range is ultra-strong) and that his weak bets when overcards/scarecards come are scared...

Usually (and against any decent player) that river card would've made my bluff even worse, but in this case (when I'm not even trying to make any Ax to fold) it's actually a good card for me, because it makes less likely that he has A.
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Last edited by chinz; 09-15-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:10 PM
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Nice one.

Did you show and drive him into monkey tilt?
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:52 PM
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This hand was played terribly.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Nice one.

Did you show and drive him into monkey tilt?
No. I'm playing much wilder postflop than huge majority of other regulars, so I don't really see any reason to show any bluffs ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawler View Post
This hand was played terribly.
Thanks for your constructive criticism. My read was spot on, and my sick bluff worked. So yeah, it must've been an awful play. (lolz I'm result oriented)

You probably know me well enough from my earlier posts, that I'm not someone that would desperation bluff that river card (which YES, in theory should be the worst possible card to bluff the river, without history vs. villain). I've made some bad bluffs (see my latest nl100 cold-4bet thread where I get owned), but I was so confident with my read on this guy, that I don't consider this one of those.

Should I use "hu4rollz anytime?!?!" line now to defend my honor or should I argue for few more posts first?
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Last edited by chinz; 09-15-2009 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:29 PM
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No your bluff was retarded. Why did you call flop?

Any hand you were ahead of on the flop is now ahead on the turn. If I'm wrong, then he has to have SC's/bluffs in which case u have no value in raising.

Essentially you had 6 outs, the 2 T and the 4 A for bluffing.

You got very lucky in this hand.

Also, if you rule out AK/AQ from his range, he'd have to check through with them on the flop. HE DIDN'T.

Your play here is a huge leak imo. You have horrible RIO and will hemorrhage money in these spots.

I would like to hear trikkur's and especially given's opinion on this "sick read."

Sorry for harsh tone btw I'm not sure why I sound so assholey today
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:43 PM
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I don't think hero can rep an A here, as I wouldn't expect him to C/C here in a 3b pot.

The turn polarizes hero's range massively, to essentially 8's full or a bluff IMO, if u improve to TP on the turn, why in the hell would you C/R.

If I have KK I look you up here all day.

Last edited by LuckyStraights; 09-15-2009 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStraights View Post
I don't think hero can rep an A here, as I wouldn't expect him to C/C here in a 3b pot.
He's a fish, it doesn't matter whether we can credibly rep an ace here or not. Also, there's FD I could have along with A high on the flop (and I wouldn't raise FD here 120bb deep), or I could just call a cbet with hand like AQ high because the board is paired. So aces are certainly in my range. Better question would be, what hands do you except someone to call a flop and raise the turn, that doesn't beat QQ-KK?

...And would you call a shove on this river with QQ or KK because "he can't rep an ace"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawler View Post
No your bluff was retarded. Why did you call flop?
Yes. I could have certainly folded straight to the cbet with my read. On the other hand, I tought he's so straightforward that he'd give up with his bluffs always, so I don't think it's awful to call one street.

Quote:
Also, if you rule out AK/AQ from his range, he'd have to check through with them on the flop. HE DIDN'T.
I don't understand this sentence at all... If I know he's betting big with good hands and he's betting very weak when the scarecards hit, how does AQ/AK make any sense and why the fuck wouldn't he just 3bet-shove the turn, there's a FD on the board.


Quote:
I would like to hear trikkur's and especially given's opinion on this "sick read."
I don't really care about other people's opinion when they havent played 1h+ with the villain in this hand and are not familiar with how he plays. This is completely based on reads, and would be simply an awful play without those. I know that.

That doesn't mean, that you can't make some very non-standard plays, when you have a very strong reason to believe that you're read is right.

So, unless you can tell me exactly how I'm misusing my reads (both of which I was very confident in) on this hand, I'm not really interested in your opinion. I didn't post this asking for comments about my play.


Given will probably also disagree with me here (if I've learned to know him at all), but at least he usually is explaining his thoughts and reasonings very well, unlike you.
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Last edited by chinz; 09-15-2009 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:54 PM
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Wow...you do this versus a random?
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