New line for over pairs...avoid suckouts?

[tmiby]

Hi guys,
I'm interested what you think about my thaughts (not looking on one specific hand, it should more be a scenario that everyone knows):

stacksizes are 100BB, everyone. 6max. You get a big pair (AA, KK, maybe QQ). you're IP making it 4BB to go. BB calls. pot is ~8BB. flop comes 3hTc2h (or similar). BB checks, you bet 6.5BB.
BB c/r to 20BB (total pot 35BB).

a) fold
I personaly never would do that, without specific reads or if villain is NIT!

b) call
even worse, because pot is then 48BB and you've 76BB left. In addition I don't think villain is going to check turn and river, so he actually put you over the committment threshold.

c) raise. and this is where I'm intersted about your thaughts.
I used to raise here allin straight away. he can have a set of course, but more likely is a flushdraw (maybe AT, JJ).
Now, I realised that someone with a flushdraw, is more likely to call an allin straight away (and he might gets it), BUT he may folds to a proper REraise!.

In this actual scenario yesterday, I raised to 52BB. To let him know "hey, I just commited myself, I'm not bluffing. get out of my pot, when you're drawing!".
this maybe sounds funny, I hope you understand what I mean.

In Summary:
I think, I get more fold equity with reraising, instead of raising allin.

cheers

[given1982]

I don't think people raise/fold flush draws a lot. And lol at saying that calling the flop raise is worse than folding to it.

[TheDeKay]

Try to think at lvl 1 plz...
And why the hell do you want them to fold draws, if they get the wrong price?

[ShoveOrFold]

I think people have this idea that getting sucked out on very very bad. So it seems like a lot of lower stakes players have this fear of getting sucked out on, and this actually cause them to play their hands poorly. You almost sound like you don't want flushdraws to call you. (You should want them to call).

[tmiby]

Thanks. I went generally into the wrong direction, I see. I'm gonna adjust that.

Originally Posted by given1982

I don't think people raise/fold flush draws a lot. And lol at saying that calling the flop raise is worse than folding to it.

ok. so you call. if another blank comes on turn, we bet. But do you really fold if the potential flushcard comes up and the opponent bets? what's your plan? And if you don't fold, why not betting/shoving flop?


@shove or fold: I see that they're behind. but not much. lets think they have AXs hand against our qq, kk. It's 53% to 47%.
I know that it still is our advantage in the long run, but do you always want to see a showdown...?

[given1982]

Originally Posted by tmiby

ok. so you call. if another blank comes on turn, we bet. But do you really fold if the potential flushcard comes up and the opponent bets? what's your plan? And if you don't fold, why not betting/shoving flop?

It's all opponent-dependent. It depends what villain's flop c/r range is. It also depends on whether you have a heart in your big pair. I don't think there is going to be a default play that always works for this situation. And I am hesitant about 3betting flops because it is hard to balance (if you're playing against a villain for whom that matters).

[chinz]

Maximizing the folding equity against hands that you beat... sounds like an excellent strategy. Calling raise would be awful because hands like AT could keep on betting for protection! Are you playing against Vanessa Rousso or how do you think that draws are more likely to call instashove, do they think "omg I have folding equity when calling" or what exactly...? Shoving draws yourself is IN ANY CASE better than calling all-ins with a draw and the reasons should be obvious.

I think we're getting leveled here... somebody please lock this thread.