To stack off or not??? Hand 1

[mxrider]

I'm looking over a few hands from yesterdays session and had some very interesting spots that came up. In all of the hands we flop a pretty good hand and wondering if we are willing to stack off or not. I'm not going to comment on what I did. Some I call/shove and some I fold but want to put a few of these out to see if I am making the correct decisions. So here is the first one. I have about 215 hands on villain and he tends to defend his bb pretty lightly preflop in BVB. He is running an overall 21/14/4.3 agg with a 14% cold call preflop.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($116.15)
Hero (SB) ($136.65)
BB ($200)
UTG ($110.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, A
2 folds, Hero bets $4, BB calls $3

Flop: ($8) Q, 9, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BB raises to $10, Hero raises to $35, BB raises to $196 (All-In), Hero?

[ShoveOrFold]

when u 3bet flop, u have to get it in, or else you are turning your hand into a bluff.
I don't know how much of his range you have beat, but with the redraw, tptk, and already invested, i have to call, but expect to see 2p, sets, and flushes a lot. But that board has lots of combo draws too.

[given1982]

BVB against a reg, I'm always getting this in. Why did you 3bet the flop if you didn't know what to do against a shove?

[mxrider]

Originally Posted by given1982

BVB against a reg, I'm always getting this in. Why did you 3bet the flop if you didn't know what to do against a shove?

I had in my mind what I would do, but looking for whether it is right or not. Would you be 3betting this flop or flatting? Maybe that is the better question.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by mxrider

I had in my mind what I would do, but looking for whether it is right or not. Would you be 3betting this flop or flatting? Maybe that is the better question.

I like 3betting and getting it in.

[Trikkur]

3-bet and obviously you have to call a shove.

[TheDeKay]

Hm, actually I'm not rly sure, if 3bet-getting it in is the best play here. I might prefer to just call him here.
You could argue, that we won't get any more value from a set/2pair, if a 4th club hits the board, but we do get immediate odds and we are a 42.5%-dog to those hands, if we get it in on the flop.
Hm, but if we call, there will be 28$ in the pot and the turn-play is minus EV vs those hands... so maybe 3bet-get it in>call.

My problem is, that we are a dog to his 4bet shoving range (unless he is willing to get it in with something like JcT).

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.068% 42.02% 00.04% 14145 15.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 57.932% 57.89% 00.04% 19485 15.00 { QQ, 99, 77, KcJc, KcTc, Kc9c, Q9s, JcTc, Jc9c, Tc8c, 97s, 8c6c, 6c5c, 6c4c, 5c4c, 5c3c, Kc9d, Kc9h, Kc9s, Q9o, 97o }

Hm, the question is, if it's better to keep worse hands in the hand or to take the easy way and just 3bet and fold out about everything that we beat.
We have to consider, that we are 135BB deep and that his minraise pretty much polarizes his range (I'm not even sure, if he would minraise with 2pairs/sets)...

Lol, I think, I just confused myself... uhm... I'll try to give a better answer, if I have more time later.

Just some things, I need to know:
Did he minraise the flop before?
How often does he fold preflop BvB?
Is he able to multibarrel?

[quadfive]

3bet & go broke

[EdgeOfReality]

Originally Posted by given1982

BVB against a reg, I'm always getting this in.

Would the same hold anytime we are hu, or only bvb?

I enjoyed the replies as I may be playing wrong in these spots.

We only have TPTK, yet no one has suggested pot control. If we call the flop raise the pot is 28. We can then call a bet on the turn for less than the 3bet on the flop and we can see 2 more streets. While we might lose some value if a 4th club hits, we can let him continue bluffing with hands like KcQx and QxJc. Even if he has a flush, can he bet the river without the nut flush if we call the flop & turn? Or is this just weak play thinking that I need to get rid of?

[given1982]

Originally Posted by EdgeOfReality

Would the same hold anytime we are hu, or only bvb?

I enjoyed the replies as I may be playing wrong in these spots.

We only have TPTK, yet no one has suggested pot control. If we call the flop raise the pot is 28. We can then call a bet on the turn for less than the 3bet on the flop and we can see 2 more streets. While we might lose some value if a 4th club hits, we can let him continue bluffing with hands like KcQx and QxJc. Even if he has a flush, can he bet the river without the nut flush if we call the flop & turn? Or is this just weak play thinking that I need to get rid of?

4-handed, I might make this play regardless of the positions. Obviously it becomes a lot more iffy UTG vs. UTG+1 in a 6-handed game.

We don't only have TPTK--we have TPTK and the nut flush draw.

If villain also has top pair with a good kicker and a good flush draw, he won't be "bluffing"--he'll be justifiably getting it in also.

Of course villain will be value betting a strong flush on the river. Calls don't slow down people from betting monsters that aren't the pure nuts.