NL100 AK 4bet sizing

[mxrider]

Ok, I know we all talk about 3bet pots a fair amount but we don't hear or discuss much about 4bet pots. I found myself in a rather weird situation yesterday and was kind of lost. Villain has an 8% 3bet range from CO and was playing an overall 25/11/3.8 with a 15% cold call.

My first question is regarding 4bet sizing. We are 111bb deep (effective stacks) and wondering if my 4bet size is right or a little small. I've been trying to get away from 4bet shoving AK lately and have been just 4betting when appropriate to merge my range with my large pairs. Rarely do I find myself playing postflop in 4bet pots without being all in and that really threw me off here.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($73.55)
SB ($99)
BB ($140.50)
Hero (UTG) ($113.65)
MP ($111.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A
Hero bets $3.50, MP raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero raises to $32, MP calls $20

Flop: ($65.50) J, 9, 8 (2 players)

OK, now we have our 4bet flatted and we whiff. What now???? I didn't think about this prior to making my 4bet and this hand really taught me a lesson of "what is our plan if we hit, or if we miss".

[TheDeKay]

Since you are a bit deeper than usual, I reaally like your 4bet size. If you had only 100BBs, I would tend to make it like 28$ to make it easier to balance.

Most of the time ppl just 5bet or fold vs 4bets, so yeah, this spot kind of sucks. It's pretty hard to give him a exact range, but unless he's trying to make a play, it should be something like 99+ with some AK/AQ or so in the mix. Since I don't think, that we are good here too often, a c/f on the flop should be best.

[given1982]

I think a 4bet to 28.7% of effective stacks is still too big because it really removes any possibility that you're bluffing. I think his 4bet calling range has you crushed on this flop, so I'd just c/f.

[mxrider]

interesting discussion here moreso with the betsizes than the postflop play as I pretty much figured to hear what I am hearing there. I am really trying to work on my betsizes recently if you all couldn't tell. I'm used to dealing with "standard" betting and I may be overdoing my 4bets in general as I've been using $32 as my standard size 4bet which may be totally wrong all by itself. What types of %'s should I be looking for rather than bb's so I can make adjustments depending on stacksizes? I was quite shocked when DeKay said he would normally 4bet to $28 in a 100bb effective stacks.

[given1982]

Originally Posted by mxrider

interesting discussion here moreso with the betsizes than the postflop play as I pretty much figured to hear what I am hearing there. I am really trying to work on my betsizes recently if you all couldn't tell. I'm used to dealing with "standard" betting and I may be overdoing my 4bets in general as I've been using $32 as my standard size 4bet which may be totally wrong all by itself. What types of %'s should I be looking for rather than bb's so I can make adjustments depending on stacksizes? I was quite shocked when DeKay said he would normally 4bet to $28 in a 100bb effective stacks.

When you 4bet to 32% of effective stacks, you can't ever be bluffing because you can't ever fold to a shove. Once you've put in 32% of effective stacks, you only need 34% equity to call a 5bet shove, and it's hard to avoid having that much equity, especially if villain can ever be bluffing:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.718% 32.52% 00.20% 15592048 94663.50 { 8c7c }
Hand 1: 67.282% 67.08% 00.20% 32163137 94663.50 { KK+, AKs, AKo }

My ideal is to 4bet to 23 - 26bbs (or 23-26% of effective stacks if we're something other than 100bb deep).

There is a very well thought out thread on this topic that you should check out:

Theory: Preflop 4betting Revisited (tl;dr) - Two Plus Two Poker Forum