3 way A high monotone flop in 3 bet pot

[Silverthunder]

title should read: 3 way K high monotone flop in 3 bet pot

I just played a few hours of 100 NL, aside from splashing around, it was virtually my first session. It's pretty crazy with all of the 3 betting and the well thought out bluffs that the players make. I definitely need to study up a bit on how to better play in such an environment. I even saw one guy get it all in with pocket 10s preflop.

I was able to call down some of the bluffs. One player got me by barreling on 4th and 5th st to scare me off my pocket kings with the A scare card on the flop. I had checked on each street (3 players saw the flop, I was in first position, and the one folded to him on the 4th st. barrel).

Here is a hand that I played. This was one of the last hands that I played in the session.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($105.90)
UTG ($12)
MP ($362.80)
Hero (CO) ($140.30)
Button ($118.27)
SB ($182.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K:club:, A:club:
2 folds, Hero bets $4, Button calls $4, SB raises to $16, 1 fold, Hero calls $12, Button calls $12

Flop: ($49) K:diamond:, 2:diamond:, 3:diamond: (3 players)
SB bets $24.50, Hero calls $24.50, Button calls $24.50

Turn: ($122.50) 8:heart: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button raises to $77.77 (All-In), SB raises to $142.15 (All-In), Hero calls $99.80 (All-In)

The button was aggressive, I think he was a regular because I saw him off and on during my session. He played some marginal hands preflop from the BB 59o once to my CO raise & that was not in response to me opening like crazy; I was playing like a 22 VPIP. I also saw him limp call from the button. He seemed to like to call my bets, and his play was a little bit questionable preflop but he would try to out play me post flop with his aggression.

With the SB, I hadn't seen him do anything real crazy. I had not been playing with him for very long. I guess I would just consider him your typical player for these limits, maybe me not noticing anything about him was him being a little bit quiet at the table (tight). It seemed like 3 betting from the blinds was fairly standard.

[chinz]

It's pretty crazy with all of the 3 betting and the well thought out bluffs that the players make.

What? Did you mean to say NL1000 but missed on zero? I haven't seen any of that at NL100 (except I'm 3/4bet spewing against those stations too much).

Preflop: Hero is CO with K:club:, A:club:
Hero calls $12

Please don't. AKs is 4b/call in blindsteal situation with 140bb stacks imo, especially vs. squeeze.

If they saw you calling 3bets with hands like AKs or QQ they can start 4betting you (assuming you won't shove over 4bets with those, if you don't 4bet them yourself) and printing money. I'm not saying that most people would adapt like this, but anyway...

Turn: ($122.50) 8:heart: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button raises to $77.77 (All-In), SB raises to $142.15 (All-In), Hero hates his life

With two people AI on the turn before you, I think you can (and have to) fold this, even in 3bet pot and 140bb effective stacks. Your absolute best case scenario is to split and even then you probably would've to fade a diamond river. Even that seems very very very unlikely, because if SB had bare Ad, he would never take that line on the turn and same goes for button, when he gets to see free river he shouldn't bet the turn with it. --> both guys SHOULD have made hands here... and there is no made hands worse than AK that like their hands here.

When button just calls pre and then also calls 3bet, he's very likely to have a pocket pair (or suited connectors, but the same thing applies)... and if he plays them like this postflop he has set/flush. Also, the 3bettor getting it in here, I can't see him ever having anything worse than AK (which could also have a diamond redraw, but in that case I don't understand that turn trapping with checkshove, he should've just shoved himself) He could also have just squeezed with some random suited junk and flopped a flush.

Another sign of strenght is probably that SB bets very small on the flop. This could also be weak, just trying to take the pot down, but when he gets it in on the turn, it looks a lot like he was just inducing calls/raises with that.

[given1982]

4bb is a pretty big open from the CO. I would 4bet and call it off preflop. As played, fold the turn.

[tmiby]

4bet AKs pre.
as played fold turn.

What do you guys think about raising flop? As played pre, this seems to be the last possibility to get away with it. But other players could already have a made hand...

[Silverthunder]

"What? Did you mean to say NL1000 but missed on zero? I haven't seen any of that at NL100 (except I'm 3/4bet spewing against those stations too much)."

I am new to 100NL and there is just a hell of a lot of 3 betting compared to 50NL, from what I saw that session. In the next few sessions, it wasn't quite as crazy.

"Please don't. AKs is 4b/call in blindsteal situation with 140bb stacks imo, especially vs. squeeze."

Isn't it not really a squeeze play if the guy is out of position?
Thanks for the info on the AK; I was used to the micros where that is not a 4 betting hand.


"With two people AI on the turn before you, I think you can (and have to) fold this, even in 3bet pot and 140bb effective stacks. Your absolute best case scenario is to split and even then you probably would've to fade a diamond river. Even that seems very very very unlikely, because if SB had bare Ad, he would never take that line on the turn and same goes for button, when he gets to see free river he shouldn't bet the turn with it. --> both guys SHOULD have made hands here... and there is no made hands worse than AK that like their hands here.

When button just calls pre and then also calls 3bet, he's very likely to have a pocket pair (or suited connectors, but the same thing applies)... and if he plays them like this postflop he has set/flush. Also, the 3bettor getting it in here, I can't see him ever having anything worse than AK (which could also have a diamond redraw, but in that case I don't understand that turn trapping with checkshove, he should've just shoved himself) He could also have just squeezed with some random suited junk and flopped a flush.

Another sign of strenght is probably that SB bets very small on the flop. This could also be weak, just trying to take the pot down, but when he gets it in on the turn, it looks a lot like he was just inducing calls/raises with that"

Thanks, definitely a mistake on this hand. Guess I was hoping that the button was just trying to do a crazy steal and the SB had AK with one diamond. Thinking about it afterwards and with your post adding to my thoughts, there was no chance. This is the kind of situation that I should have mastered in the micros. I think I have been racing into higher stakes rather quickly (look at the date of my 10NL posts- later part of July- been putting a ton of time in but still).

[podbelski]

Silverthunder, what they have shown btw? I assume your AK was the worst hand

[Silverthunder]

The button had 2s, a set. The other guy had pocket aces with the ace that completes the nut flush.

The 2s made a boat on the river and took down the ~$400 pot.

I guess my downfall on the hand was, with the stacks running out, not being able to properly assess strength of hands from huge bets like you often would have (obviously not the casse in 3 way, 3 bet pot)

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by Silverthunder

The button had 2s, a set. The other guy had pocket aces with the ace that completes the nut flush.

The 2s made a boat on the river and took down the ~$400 pot.

I guess my downfall on the hand was, with the stacks running out, not being able to properly assess strength of hands from huge bets like you often would have (obviously not the casse in 3 way, 3 bet pot)

Yesh, 4bet pre, you're OOP vs agro player, must get it in.
He can easily get it in with AQ.
Don't 4bet big, make it like 2.25-2.6x his raise b/c you have position vs him.
This also gets him to spewshove some garbage.

[Silverthunder]

Originally Posted by AdrienD

Yesh, 4bet pre, you're OOP vs agro player, must get it in.
He can easily get it in with AQ.
Don't 4bet big, make it like 2.25-2.6x his raise b/c you have position vs him.
This also gets him to spewshove some garbage.

With the guy in the blinds, I wasn't saying that it was standard for him to 3 bet from there. I was saying that it seemed fairly common at the site, at those limits, for people to do that. Without a lot of history, he seemed tight. I would consider his 3 bet range pretty narrow. 4 bet fold? I am not good at this 3 betting /4 betting, especially at a new limit Have to read Fee's book, I guess, right?

Also, we don't want to get it in 3 way with AK, right? AK not too good multiway b/c other players have you blocked (likely to also hold Aces and kings in their hand)

[Spinage]

I thougt AK faired fairly well in a 3way all in situation, considering the majority of there range is pocket pairs.. unless they have AA/KK you could be 3 way with a ~40% chance of winning (plus FE if you 4bet)