Concept: Polarized C-betting Range

[urbansprawler]

Let's take a fairly typical hand (btw I posted this in SSNL for a reason):

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($106.90)
Hero (Button) ($120.35)
SB ($229.60)
BB ($100)
UTG ($86.25)
MP ($121.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J:club:, K:heart:
3 folds, Hero bets $3, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($7) 8:club:, J:diamond:, A:diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

1) Who do we cbet here as a default?

2) Who do we check against?

3) Why?

4) In each case, how do you play the hand afterwards?

5) Ranges/ Calculations

I will refrain from posting my thoughts for now, I'd like to give everyone a chance to chime in first.

[given1982]

I think you should bet this against everyone but an unthinking, set-mining nit. You should be cbetting A-high boards so much that anyone who is thinking will call with worse. And fish always call with worse. Also, since you cbet A-high boards so much, you are basically turning your hand face up by checking back against a decent TAG, who should just bomb the turn and the river with ATC.

[podbelski]

I might consider checking if the flop was rainbow, once in awhile

[Spinage]

I'd cbet against everybody like given said. The only ppl I wouldn't cbet against are nits you have extensive history with that will only ever call TP+. Against these, you are turning your hand into a bluff, but they are very rare tbh.

Then, I'd check behind the turn and consider calling a river bet depending on what cards have came and what my opponent is like, a lot of ppl call/check/bet out of position as a defence to cbets (gay).

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by given1982

I think you should bet this against everyone but an unthinking, set-mining nit. You should be cbetting A-high boards so much that anyone who is thinking will call with worse. And fish always call with worse. Also, since you cbet A-high boards so much, you are basically turning your hand face up by checking back against a decent TAG, who should just bomb the turn and the river with ATC.

Yeah I wouldnt do it against thinking players cause it turns your hand face up and getting check/raised on this board aint too bad cause thinking players almost always give up on the turn after you call them here.

If I call a raise from a decent player and he checks behind this flop im not gonna bomb turn+river cause he knows he represented weakness and I feel you get looked up light.

I will however bet turn and overbet dry rivers with a lot of TP+ hands to get a hero call.

anyways, I often check back flop if I feel I don't get much value by betting and they are check/raising a lot. But I'd only do this against bad and/or non-thinking players.

oh and as for how I would play the hand after, I would generally bet 2 streets if he check/calls turn (in your example) or call/fold; call/call depending on opponent.

[chinz]

I'd only check back if I'm check-folding (like 22 or 56s @ 9TQ twotone) or I'm calling down both turn&river. I would never check this flop in HU pot, regardless of my hand (unless I'd have a VERY GOOD reason to do so).

If I'd want to mix up my "not cbetting" range for balancing reasons (which I don't think is worth it at smallstakes) I'd rather do it with weaker ace or something that I could call both turn&riv.

Originally Posted by given1982

I think you should bet this against everyone but an unthinking, set-mining nit. You should be cbetting A-high boards so much that anyone who is thinking will call with worse. And fish always call with worse. Also, since you cbet A-high boards so much, you are basically turning your hand face up by checking back against a decent TAG, who should just bomb the turn and the river with ATC.

Maybe it's my loose stats or something, but I don't feel that I can make a profitable overbet bluff here against any reg... They should know that I'm always checking it down or firing two barrells with bluffs. This is one of the few spots where even the nittiest regulars know it's a good spot for herocall.

I'd bet big on the river with hands like AT here, though.

[AdrienD]

Originally Posted by chinz

This is one of the few spots where even the nittiest regulars know it's a good spot for herocall.

I'd bet big on the river with hands like AT here, though.

yeah, I completely agree. This is a spot where I bet close to pot on turn & tend to overbet river with AT cause I beat pretty much his whole range and he is likely going to have a hard time folding the top of his range.

[podbelski]

Originally Posted by chinz

I'd bet big on the river with hands like AT here, though.

Do you mean you will bet 3 streets with AT on a 8JAxx two-tone board? Most of the time I prefer to check back the river, maybe loosing value here? Maybe it's because I would never call you with weaker ace or a jack on that river thus thinking noone will...

[chinz]

Originally Posted by podbelski

Do you mean you will bet 3 streets with AT on a 8JAxx two-tone board? Most of the time I prefer to check back the river, maybe loosing value here? Maybe it's because I would never call you with weaker ace or a jack on that river thus thinking noone will...

When preflop raiser checks this flop behind, I bet turn&riv big. Not as a preflop raiser IP.

[csfanatikdbz]

does two-tone board mean its not rainbow or suited?