VIDEO DISCUSSION: Palsh 1 - $6.50 6max turbo SNG

[Trikkur]

**THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF Palsh 1 - $6.50 6max turbo SNG**

My first video upload. I play these kind of SNGs quite regularly and with a low, but positive ROI. In this particular tourney I make some decisions that are based mostly on situations und not on my hands. I tend to play far worse when I'm multitabling. I know that watching just one table might seem like a waste of time, but I think that for beginning players it is just the right pace. My plan is to build a bankroll with these SNGs and climb up the limits. I usually donk of some of my winning in tourneys, but at least I haven't needed to transfer any money to stars in the last two years. You're welcome to follow my adventures. And if you have any comments on my play, technical issues or anything else, feel free to contact me. Palsh

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Please leave any comments or questions to the video creator below.

[~run.it.twice]

That 2nd last hand was so sick, unlucky.

Nice video, I'm starting STT/MTT's pretty soon so some more videos would be great.

[Palsh]

~run.it.twice, so so you could see the video and also hear my comments? A couple of folks seem to have some problems with my vid.

I'm really happy that you enjoyed the video. As soon as the forementioned problems are solved I plan on making more of these as I think I play better when I have to talk and reason about my play, so it helps me too.

Palsh

[~run.it.twice]

I had no problems whatsoever, it may be that I have a mega codec pack installed which ay allow me to see/hear things that others can't who're using a default pack, but it was 100% fine for me.

I look forward to it, and I also find I play a lot better when talking about my play. If no one's on the house, I talk as if I'm commentating on a video as it does actually help my thought process stick to Poker instead of other things.

[DRybes]

I like your careful decision making, as it resulted in reasonable plays. No particularly bad move was made.

That was a bummer on the royal hand... I wanted to talk about it a bit, cause the result aside, I would probably have called. The player on top was getting pretty steal-crazy and it was evident from at least one other hand at that point that he was shoving very light. KQs would be good enough of the time there to make it a solid play.

I realize it was the bubble, but the 3rd player was all-in blind, so the only way you could not make the money, was if that blind hand beat you AND light-shove's hand beat you. Against the light shover who barely has you covered and blind allin hand, a call here with KQs gives you something like a 7:1 chip lead about 30-40% of the time, gives you 2nd place 50-60% of the time, and that other 0-10% is of course a loss. (The range is because I'm not sure of the exact odds.)

Definitely an unusual bubble situation, but maybe it's something to consider a good range for, if it comes up at 6max SnG.

As for the video itself as a file, see my reply on the video page. I basically got the same sentiment as the others in this thread. I don't think it's something to devote substantial time to since it looks a lot like just one person replying multiple times instead of finding the forum. I do hope you would use a different mic, louder settings, or higher quality audio encoding settings next time, though. It sounded like I was listening to a highly compressed WAV through most of the video, which made it hard to understand at times. I hope it was just one stray setting on your encode, as I rather look forward to another video by you.

[Colossos159]

I am just browsing through your video because I'm at work and watching a 1 table tournament video is kinda boring as you fold most hands anyway. I fast forwarded it and I at around 15:00 , I see two very questionable plays:

- KJs in sb, your stack = 1375 (effective stack) , blinds 25/50, button raises to 100 and you call. Hmmm, I'd prolly fold it as you are OOP, you have enough chips left, you either going to lose the maximum or win the minimum. I know its only 75 chips more but think about it : are you happy to get it in when flop come Jxx? The stacksizes also dont really allow to be chasing a draw anymore postflop. Keep your chips and wait for a better spot.

- The next hand : you raise 72o from the button 3xbb to 150! Really not a good play. Its okay to open up your game at the 25/50 level and start stealing blinds but 72o is a no no. Again the 25/50 level is really the most difficult level postflop because the stacksizes are very weird. Imagine:
You (effective stack = 1300) raise 72o OTB to 150
BB calls
POT = 325
you almost always have to cbet with a hand that just has 0 potential, you cbet 180 chips
BB calls or raises and you have to c/f turn

You lost 330 chips with 72o = 25 percent of your stack!!
Always keep in mind that the chips you lose in a STT are much more important than the ones you win.

Going to watch further now.

ps: only posting my opinion and just trying to help


EDIT: at 20:00 proofs my point exactly , you raise/steal with J9o OTB with 15bb left and end up losing 500 chips (33percent of your stack) in order to win 150.
I dont raise mediocre hands with 15BB left , you can however resteal by shoving a decent enough hand. For example if you are in BB and the button (who has been stealing before) raises, you can resteal him by shoving over him (ofcourse with a decent enough hand) which is the strength of having 12-15 big blinds. Your fold equity will be high enough to make it a profitable play.


I havent watched it further but I hope you stop raising now with 10bb left: its either shove or fold for you now.

Watching further

23:25 I wouldnt mind shoving the Q9 utg because its 4handed with the BB sitting out!

24:00 No idea why you are folding J8s in sb vs bb. You should shove it. You can actually look this up in a program called ICM or something and it is never -EV play to shove here with your stack. it becomes even weirder when you decide to shove Q5s the next hand while 2 players still have to act and you have no chips invested in the pot???

26:20: ??? shove the 88, raising small is the worst option. I havent looked out the outcome yet but shoving here is definetely +EV.

29:30: just shove against the shortie in bb with A5. really dont see the point in raising

31:22: just shove your A9 against the shortie in a blind vs blind situation . Really, this is a big mistake!

I might look further to your video later and sorry if my comments seem harsh but your play tilts me abit and I am not a good player at all but it seems that you need to learn some basic stuff.

33:20: KJ shove !!! PUT PRESSURE ON YOUR OPPONENTS. chances of him having a worse hand are sooooooooooo huge that shoving with the these blinds and his stack is NEVER -EV.

Colossos159

ps: If you want to contact me , I'm on skype: screenname: Colossos159

[Palsh]

Originally Posted by DRybes

That was a bummer on the royal hand... I wanted to talk about it a bit, cause the result aside, I would probably have called. The player on top was getting pretty steal-crazy and it was evident from at least one other hand at that point that he was shoving very light. KQs would be good enough of the time there to make it a solid play.

I realize it was the bubble, but the 3rd player was all-in blind, so the only way you could not make the money, was if that blind hand beat you AND light-shove's hand beat you. Against the light shover who barely has you covered and blind allin hand, a call here with KQs gives you something like a 7:1 chip lead about 30-40% of the time, gives you 2nd place 50-60% of the time, and that other 0-10% is of course a loss. (The range is because I'm not sure of the exact odds.)

Definitely an unusual bubble situation, but maybe it's something to consider a good range for, if it comes up at 6max SnG.

Thanks for your feedback. I haven't played that hand particularly well. I consulted an ICM training tool and it said I should have shoved. These tools only look at shoving or folding, though, and do not consider the check-through that I was trying do pull off here, also called "silent collusion", because the ohe players silently aggree to play different from what their optimal play might be to get rid of a player that is all in. I sitll like the approach to just call the big blind and try to check it down. If I had not misclicked on the raise button and the third player had pushed, I probably would have called. There are two reasons that I did not call in this case: First being that I was confused by my misclick and on slight tilt from that. But the secnd reason is that I showed some strength with my minraise so the shove by the third player seemed really strong. So I expect him to win the hand and see no use in getting involved. It might have been a good situation but I just liked folding better after my minraise.

I wanted to do some calculations to find a mathematical splution for this problem but realized that it comes down to the range I am giving the third player. I gave him a narrow strong range based on what had happened so far in the hand. That red might have been wrong (we now know for a fact that it was), but it was all I had in that moment. I am thankful for the opportunity to discuss that stuff here as it gives me the chance to rethink all this and learn from it.

Originally Posted by DRybes

As for the video itself as a file, see my reply on the video page. I basically got the same sentiment as the others in this thread. I don't think it's something to devote substantial time to since it looks a lot like just one person replying multiple times instead of finding the forum. I do hope you would use a different mic, louder settings, or higher quality audio encoding settings next time, though. It sounded like I was listening to a highly compressed WAV through most of the video, which made it hard to understand at times. I hope it was just one stray setting on your encode, as I rather look forward to another video by you.

I uploaded a new video today and I think you will be pleased by the sound quality. I turned up the mic and changed the compression from voice quality to CD quality. It doesn't enlarge the video that much and I have to agree that it makes for a far better watching experience. I also changed the codec in hopes that flash conversion would be possible which wasn't the case. I'm gonna try yet another codec in future vids.

Palsh

[Palsh]

Originally Posted by Colossos159

I am just browsing through your video because I'm at work and watching a 1 table tournament video is kinda boring as you fold most hands anyway.

To write it up front: thanks for your feedback. I see that you really gave me a lot to think about here. While I write this, I haven't looked into everything you wrote, I'm gonna do this step by step.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

I fast forwarded it and I at around 15:00 , I see two very questionable plays:

- KJs in sb, your stack = 1375 (effective stack) , blinds 25/50, button raises to 100 and you call. Hmmm, I'd prolly fold it as you are OOP, you have enough chips left, you either going to lose the maximum or win the minimum. I know its only 75 chips more but think about it : are you happy to get it in when flop come Jxx? The stacksizes also dont really allow to be chasing a draw anymore postflop. Keep your chips and wait for a better spot.

I totally agree, this should have been a fold. I fast forwarded through the first 15 minutes to see if there had been some kind of motivation for this play but I did not find anything. Calling is usually a losing play. I might reason that I wanted to show that I cannot get bet off every hand but again, a raise would have been better than a call with the fold beeing best.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

- The next hand : you raise 72o from the button 3xbb to 150! Really not a good play. Its okay to open up your game at the 25/50 level and start stealing blinds but 72o is a no no. Again the 25/50 level is really the most difficult level postflop because the stacksizes are very weird. Imagine:
You (effective stack = 1300) raise 72o OTB to 150
BB calls
POT = 325
you almost always have to cbet with a hand that just has 0 potential, you cbet 180 chips
BB calls or raises and you have to c/f turn

You lost 330 chips with 72o = 25 percent of your stack!!
Always keep in mind that the chips you lose in a STT are much more important than the ones you win.

Ok, you'll have to believe me that I would not have cbet there. That's why I did it with 72o, with any other hand I might have been seduced to stay in but with this I just give up if I don't win it preflop (or flop 772, obv.) If I'm called I also like to show that I don't cbet every flop. I agree that it is a goofy play. Don't try this at home, I guess.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

EDIT: at 20:00 proofs my point exactly , you raise/steal with J9o OTB with 15bb left and end up losing 500 chips (33percent of your stack) in order to win 150.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

23:25 I wouldnt mind shoving the Q9 utg because its 4handed with the BB sitting out!

Neither do I want to rely on the connection problems persisting until it is his turn, nor do I think that my stack is small enough for a shove with two players left to act. Well, maybe on a very loose table.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

24:00 No idea why you are folding J8s in sb vs bb. You should shove it. You can actually look this up in a program called ICM or something and it is never -EV play to shove here with your stack. it becomes even weirder when you decide to shove Q5s the next hand while 2 players still have to act and you have no chips invested in the pot???

I don't want to get into a discussion about ICM but it makes some assumptions that in my oppinion aren't being met in these kind of SNGs. Also, playing according to ICM denies your opponents the opportunity to gain big edges against you but it also denies them the opportunity to make big mistakes.

I stand by my fold and also by my push in the next hands for the reasons that I explained in the video.

Originally Posted by Colossos159

26:20: ??? shove the 88, raising small is the worst option. I havent looked out the outcome yet but shoving here is definetely +EV.

See, of course shoving is +EV. I don't agree though that that makes it the best line of play though. Plus raising small cannot be worse that folding.

Some of your later comments focus on similar push or fold decisions. My style is to play thinking poker, even in late stages. There are bigger edges out there than those that can be made by playing like a bot, especially if you have opponents that tend to make mistakes. If they play the pushbot game, I might have to do it too.

I appeciate your comments but in my oppinion some of them really expose a limited view on poker. You are playing against people, not against bots, so play thinking poker. The game has not been "solved" and probably never will be.

Palsh